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Doing what it was bred to do.

2304 Views 51 Replies 20 Participants Last post by  Matt Vandart
Maybe not politically correct, but this is what terrier heart/gameness/fightdrive is all about.
the BT just ran around having fun till the bull put the matador on the ground.
Those here who are intelligent enough to speak two languages, "What the he(( are they saying"? :oops: :oops: :lol:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5lnUwkkWrk
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I don't like the actual bull fighting or bull baiting either but I still wont force my beliefs and traditions on a culture I know nothing about.
We were all raised with different values and I look at it as pure arrogance to tell some one from a different culture that they are wrong as long as it doesn't hurt me or my family and friends.
Personally I think if we were all alike the world would be pretty damn boring.
"When in Rome"........

Wise words.
There's nothing I can learn in life from stabbing an exhausted, drugged and terrified cow. This has been banned in all civilized countries;

The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.” ― Mahatma Gandhi;

No bulls are drugged, thats another silly comment... Drugging a bull would only numb its aggression and nobility, which would turn the "faena" into a very weak session. Bullfighters need hard, aggressive bulls that have style and keep pushing until the end.

No cows are fought at events (although tested thoroughly for aggression and willingness to go, females are only used as breeding stock). Your words originate in an emotional reaction...That type of speech would lose credibility if there wasnt an emotional side to it...

Instead if you said, these are specifically selected and bred bulls for the purpose of fighting.
In this type of selection, the bulls spend the first four years of their lives in a pasture, eating the best grass and food with regular veterinary care. At age 4 are then evaluated and taken to the arena.

Such approach would be far more objective and straight to the point. Nonetheless it is a blood sport and sometimes people dont like it. Thats reality. I happen to love it and have strong family tradition behind it.

The difference between this type of cattle and beef cattle is that instead of going to a slaughterhouse...they end their lives doing what they were bred to do...FIGHT.

ONLY gamebred bulls are fought in the arena...these are 500/600 year old bloodlines selected only for the purpose of bullfighting. Each bloodline possesses certain characteristics in the fight...Similar to what we expect from our dogs "higher prey, more defense, etc"...this happens in bullfighting bull bloodlines, except the traits are not prey drive, etc. Fight drive, hardness, willingness to take the fight to the man and heart to stay there...are present in bullfighting bulls.

As for the civilized world allegations, Portugal, Spain, southern France are not civilized countries?

You know Mark, if we were to discuss the "civilized" concept I could bring several very uncivilized things happening in your country...but these things pertain to humans, not some gamebred animal being used in what it was created to do.

I choose to leave it at that, for I REALLY learned to respect other countries, even if I disagreed with some of their traditions. That, in my humble opinion, is the ultimate definition of "civilized".


Best regards
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The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.” ― Mahatma Gandhi;

I disagree.

The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its citizens are treated - Tiago Fontes
There's nothing I can learn in life from stabbing an exhausted, drugged and terrified cow. This has been banned in all civilized countries;

The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.” ― Mahatma Gandhi;

Mark, are you aware the British tax payer partly funds this bull shit ?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...lfighting-via-EU-subsidies.html#disqus_thread

Some interesting reading and facts...

http://www.bullfightingfreeeurope.org/
I disagree.

The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its citizens are treated - Tiago Fontes
i don't believe you have the credibility to alter a quotation attributed to Ghandi.
and also, animals and children, being innocent and mostly defenseless, are totally at the mercy of everyone else and that is why their treatment gives you a pretty good litmus test for peripheral humanity.
now it is true, no, i don't know a whole lot about bull fighting other than what Hemingway wrote about it and what we learned in 4-H almost 20 years ago, but it was abominable then and it is still. i HATE it when shady/horriffic/immoral things are done under the protective wing of "culture". like whaling for the Japanese and genital mutilation in numerous places in Africa. part of the culture in Afghanistan brought men so afraid of little girls being educated to burn them in their school.
this is not to imply that the government of the United States of America doesn't do whatever it can get away with, lots of which is pretty evil,too. no. this is to stick to the hope that standards can somehow be dragged kicking and screaming out of the dark ages.
do i know anything first hand about bull fighting? nope, because i would never contribute a solitary cent to such an enterprise. i do love some PBR--the rodeo faction and the beer, equally!
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i don't believe you have the credibility to alter a quotation attributed to Ghandi.
and also, animals and children, being innocent and mostly defenseless, are totally at the mercy of everyone else and that is why their treatment gives you a pretty good litmus test for peripheral humanity.
now it is true, no, i don't know a whole lot about bull fighting other than what Hemingway wrote about it and what we learned in 4-H almost 20 years ago, but it was abominable then and it is still. i HATE it when shady/horriffic/immoral things are done under the protective wing of "culture". like whaling for the Japanese and genital mutilation in numerous places in Africa. part of the culture in Afghanistan brought men so afraid of little girls being educated to burn them in their school.
this is not to imply that the government of the United States of America doesn't do whatever it can get away with, lots of which is pretty evil,too. no. this is to stick to the hope that standards can somehow be dragged kicking and screaming out of the dark ages.
do i know anything first hand about bull fighting? nope, because i would never contribute a solitary cent to such an enterprise. i do love some PBR--the rodeo faction and the beer, equally!
What's it say about American culture when bull fighting and whaling are compared to genital mutilation and burning to death of humans.
+1! What's so brave about repeatedly stabbing an animal before you tease it and see if you can get out of the way? This is brave! - http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/...eraman-faces-black-rhino-video_n_3983913.html
How old is that video? I thought Black Rhinos are now extinct?
I disagree.

The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its citizens are treated - Tiago Fontes
There is no comparison between the way a nation treats its animals and the way it treats it citizens. The way it treats its citizens is far more important.

Thank you Tiago for your post on the the bullfighting. I didn't grow up in this culture but can understand it now.

When I think of the badgers that are prey for dogs in GB and hundreds stand around watching the badger being torn to pieces by the dogs - I could subscribe easily to bull fighting.

At the dog club we had a number of stray cats around. The building of a road neaby made it necessary to have some workers living in barracks nearby, who fed the cats.

I was about to take one of the cats to my vet to see if he could find an owner for it. We already had a tom cat who wouldn't take kindly to a newcomer.
When I came to collect it - it was gone - killed by one of our "oh! so correct dog handlers".

Today many cast the first stone without thinking of their own mistakes or of the mistakes of society in general which they and their families past and present bear.
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i don't believe you have the credibility to alter a quotation attributed to Ghandi.
I will "whatever" the rest of your post simply because I do not care about your feelings on bullfighting, nor do I really care about changing your views. I only commented when you said my "pals" should be "sterilized", because, truth be told, that is way too silly.

As far as my credibility... Let me tell you something:

I never accept things just because they were said by X,Y,Z person. I could care less if Ghandi, Mandela, Mother Teresa, came up with the sentence.

I find the quote ridiculous. That is my personal opinion, whether I have credibility before you or not.

Can you live with the fact that I find Ghandi's quote ridiculous? I mean, am I allowed to find it ridiculous? In a free world, I should be able to say it's ridiculous...whether my statement is ridiculous itself or NOT.


Kindest regards,

Tiago
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What's it say about American culture when bull fighting and whaling are compared to genital mutilation and burning to death of humans.
To me it is just the confirmation of the saying:

Opinions are like assholes and everyone's got one... Then I add:

Use it as wisely as possible!


Regards
Some interesting reading and facts...http://www.bullfightingfreeeurope.org/

That website is just like PETA and pet ownership... in one word BIASED.

It is a website owned by an organization wanting to end bullfighting...

What happens when one day you find a website that shows terriers at work, loaded with words against it? What happens when you cannot ride a horse, because the horses get injured from "carrying a human on its back"?

What happens when you no longer can work your dogs, because dogs are "our companions and not weapons"?

Anything can be twisted to suit an agenda. Remember that and teach yourself to become rational and judge situations from a standpoint of reason, not mass thinking or emotions.

Only my opinion
That website is just like PETA and pet ownership... in one word BIASED.

It is a website owned by an organization wanting to end bullfighting...

What happens when one day you find a website that shows terriers at work, loaded with words against it? What happens when you cannot ride a horse, because the horses get injured from "carrying a human on its back"?

What happens when you no longer can work your dogs, because dogs are "our companions and not weapons"?

Anything can be twisted to suit an agenda. Remember that and teach yourself to become rational and judge situations from a standpoint of reason, not mass thinking or emotions.

Only my opinion
You're right, it wasn't a great choice of web site, bit of a speedy knee jerk reaction when I discovered british taxpayers were helping to subsidise such a barbaric practice... Here's another countering some of the flawed arguments of the pro bullfighting... it helps to give people some background. It's in Spanish and English...

http://www.stopourshame.com/en/argumentos.htm

I actually find a great deal of the argument very rational, and just like you, I am also entitled to an opinion.
Why thank you kind sir. :)

It's the wrong one, though ;-) lol


(Kidding).
It's the wrong one, though ;-) lol


(Kidding).
Of course it is, thank you, thank you :)
Put darkness behind your back and become enlightened...
Put darkness behind your back and become enlightened...

A little something ^^^ resonating here. :) Taken from http://www.stopourshame.com/en/argumentos.htm I kind of found this bit interesting.

The pro bull fighting people say:

“The bull is not killed in the ring to satisfy an unhealthy appetite; on the contrary, it reveals qualities and essential characteristic such as dedication, bravery, intelligence, creativity and solidarity and the event allows thousands of “aficionados” to commune together in the simple belief that Man triumphs over Chaos and in so doing elevates his condition. The experience, which has a strong metaphysical connotation, can at times give the participants a taste of eternity.

The citizens of the EU and members of the SOS Platform argue:

This idea, peppered with a medieval interpretation of metaphysics and religious fervour, is a negation of that which they hope to achieve: the elevation of the human condition. To start with, this line of thinking negates the scientific basics of evolution and perhaps situates their theorists alongside the creationists.

We do not deny the differences between us and other mammals. We understand that our capacity to reason, to judge, to think, to control ourselves, to invent systems of government and laws and to establish customs. All these abilities make us different. We hold that this difference, which makes us instrumental in human destiny, makes us responsible for our lives, our decisions and our environment. We are now experiencing global warming and the climate change which are precisely consequences of -………………………. We are creatures of habit as well as political creatures; we establish a way of life and a way of going about things. These ways are only ever modified as a result of the historic revolutions.

Thanks to the tireless work of people who glimpsed in themselves the capacity to handle political power and who convinced their society of this capacity, the absolute monarchies were overturned. Later, citizens won economic, social and political rights. Again this was achieved thanks to the tireless work of a few visionaries who convinced and educated their society; reasoning and rationality convinced people that these were universal rights and not only pertaining to the privileged class. This movement, this revolution, known as the Enlightenment, has left us with the knowledge that we are rational creatures and morally responsible for our actions.
The duality of Nature/Culture (Nurture) (which the bull fighting supporters say is reflected in the ring, as the struggle between Order and Chaos) is ethically comprehensible if you look at things from the anthropological and ethnocentric point of view which separates Man from Nature. But if you see Man as part of the Natural World then the duality is not ethically comprehensible. bull fighting people, who tend to be anthropocentric, see the fight as Rational Man fighting to re-establish Order; the fight represents a mystic, purifying experience where Man prevails over the Brutality of Nature and he becomes the Creator; the subject transforms the object; the res cogitans moulds the res extensa.

For us, the members of the SOS Platform, the human species is not perceived from the metaphysical point of view. We see animals, humans and nature as interrelated parts of life. The bull fight is irrational where Man refuses to accept himself as part of Nature and subjects the bull arbitrarily to a cruel ritual ending in his death; Man refuses to admit that the bull feels like he does, has interests as he does, and who has the right not to suffer unnecessarily.
The members of the SOS Platform feel closer to a scientific standpoint; we accept that we are a part of the Natural World, that we are interrelated; we also feel a great responsibility for its upkeep.
We accept that we belong to nature and we feel connected to the rest of living creatures which inhabit the planet.

From this standpoint we face a new ethical dimension which requires us to answer some questions: questions about the value of other living creatures, questions about our own value within the chaos and the order in the Natural World, questions about where Man stands now in the cosmos, Man who has ethical and scientific concerns, Man who rejects the old-fashioned version of humans as the ones chosen by God to make sense of the world and to dominate and order it. Obviously we try to order and make sense to the world (after all we are the ones who know and transform the world), but we are not in the centre of the world. We are situated there where science, ethics and society tell us we are: if science tells us we are “part of the ecosystem” then we are woven into the tapestry of the planet; if society tells us to “appreciate living in peaceful and respectful coexistence” then we recognise the richness of diversity but not only human diversity, the rich diversity of animals and nature; if ethics tells us we are “responsible for our actions” then it is because Mankind is active in changing the world and in so doing , has the power and logistic capacity to destroy everything that exists but who also has the power of ideals, ideals about life, culture and society, and must seek a life worth living for.
Thus we see bull fighting as a tradition which, unjustifiable from the moral, economic and cultural point of view, should have disappeared long ago due to popular revolt, but which still exists thanks to grants and subsidies and which, with our taxes we are all unwillingly and undemocratically supporting.
For these reasons we ask you, please, to sign the Written Declaration and help us put an end to bull fighting and thus take a step forward for humanity.

I don't need to read stuff like this to know when something is intrinsically wrong, maybe you should have a read Tiago. That is my opinion only, which I am entitiled to. Clear things up any?
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Alright Maggie. Bullfighting is cruel and I shall stop attending bullfights from now on. ;-)

Am I morally a better person now? lol
Alright Maggie. Bullfighting is cruel and I shall stop attending bullfights from now on. ;-)

Am I morally a better person now? lol
Now then, how hard was that ? :)
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