Doing what it was bred to do.

2296 Views 51 Replies 20 Participants Last post by Matt Vandart, Dec 17, 2013

Bob Scott

Discussion Starter · Sep 17, 2006

Maybe not politically correct, but this is what terrier heart/gameness/fightdrive is all about.
the BT just ran around having fun till the bull put the matador on the ground.
Those here who are intelligent enough to speak two languages, "What the he(( are they saying"?

:lol:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5lnUwkkWrk

1 - 17 of 52 Posts

Tiago Fontes

· #7 · Dec 6, 2013

Al Curbow said:
People that participate in bull fighting simply aren't very bright.

What makes you state this?

I can accept you being against it...but determining the participant's intelligence level seems to be a bit too much.

Would you like to question my intelectual capacity? Especially, since I enjoy and attend bullfights in my country, because it is legal. I also have very good friends who are bull fighting bull breeders...

Just curious...

Tiago Fontes

· #9 · Dec 6, 2013

Catherine Gervin said:
i don't understand the knock against the Bull Terrier's gameness, because i always thought gameness was the willingness to engage in a fight and keep fighting, in spite of injury, exhaustion, reason, self-preservation, etc. i thought the dog did an outstanding job of taking his knocks and coming back for more, and whomever he belongs to ought to be pretty frickin' proud of him.
this video aside, i only like bull fights when the Matador gets himself skewered, because that's what he deserves. this blunt animal is bled with little spears and then bled some more with those short decorated spears they bury in his shoulders so he can no longer raise his head and he's hurting and he's angry and tired and here's this arrogant postulating jerk who twirls him around until the sword is sunk in. sometimes they kill the bull with a proper thrust lined up to get to the heart, but they also screw it up a lot and so it takes a couple swords and stabs. also, there is the goring of horses going on from time to time before the matador gets his turn in the ring. it's a STUPID past time. there's no way it's got the dignity or street brawler balls of bull riding, either, so while Tiago Fontes may like to attend, what he is watching is a cowardly spectacle. as for his friends who breed these bulls, if they're any good they probably make pretty decent money, but i doubt it comes anywhere near what the stock handlers/purveyors working with the PBR are bringing in. oh, and those bulls live nice long plush lives...no blood-letting or skewering allowed. i wouldn't hazard a guess on the intelligence of those who support or engage in bull fighting because even smart people do really stupid things sometimes.

Ok, Catherine.

Meanwhile, look at some of my "coward" friends catching a bull...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOST7XoHr8M

Tiago Fontes

· #17 · Dec 7, 2013

Catherine Gervin said:
yep, those guys should be sterilized so they don't further degrade the gene pool.
how long did they work the bull before the matador needed some foils for his cape work?
would your good pals have fared so well against a fresh bull?
really.truly.not impressed.

Catherine,

I had one "good pal" in coma for two weeks from a bull. You speak and give opinions on something completely unknown to your existence.

I accept that is not something you enjoy... but to say "those guys should be sterilized so they dont further degrade the gene pool" is a bit silly.

On the other hand, those guys have guts, skill and enjoy what they do. I've been by their side bull catching and really enjoyed myself (the day after is hard, though).

Nonetheless, I am not here to change your opinion/perception. You offered the reaction/response of someone who is emotional about something you know nothing about. It was expected... nothing surprising.

To my last paragraph, you will most likely come back with something within the lines/meaning of:

"most sound individuals wouldnt do it...it is cruel to stab an animal...there is no courage involved... there is nothing to be emotional about cruelty against animals... is the animal not suffering? ..." thats how you're conditioned, it is how you view it... it is your perception.

Just keep something in mind, not everything is what it seems... There's a lot to learn about in life.

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Tiago Fontes

· #21 · Dec 8, 2013

Bob Scott said:
I don't like the actual bull fighting or bull baiting either but I still wont force my beliefs and traditions on a culture I know nothing about.
We were all raised with different values and I look at it as pure arrogance to tell some one from a different culture that they are wrong as long as it doesn't hurt me or my family and friends.
Personally I think if we were all alike the world would be pretty damn boring.
"When in Rome"........

Wise words.

Tiago Fontes

· #22 · Dec 8, 2013

Mark Horne said:
There's nothing I can learn in life from stabbing an exhausted, drugged and terrified cow. This has been banned in all civilized countries;

The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.” ― Mahatma Gandhi;

No bulls are drugged, thats another silly comment... Drugging a bull would only numb its aggression and nobility, which would turn the "faena" into a very weak session. Bullfighters need hard, aggressive bulls that have style and keep pushing until the end.

No cows are fought at events (although tested thoroughly for aggression and willingness to go, females are only used as breeding stock). Your words originate in an emotional reaction...That type of speech would lose credibility if there wasnt an emotional side to it...

Instead if you said, these are specifically selected and bred bulls for the purpose of fighting.
In this type of selection, the bulls spend the first four years of their lives in a pasture, eating the best grass and food with regular veterinary care. At age 4 are then evaluated and taken to the arena.

Such approach would be far more objective and straight to the point. Nonetheless it is a blood sport and sometimes people dont like it. Thats reality. I happen to love it and have strong family tradition behind it.

The difference between this type of cattle and beef cattle is that instead of going to a slaughterhouse...they end their lives doing what they were bred to do...FIGHT.

ONLY gamebred bulls are fought in the arena...these are 500/600 year old bloodlines selected only for the purpose of bullfighting. Each bloodline possesses certain characteristics in the fight...Similar to what we expect from our dogs "higher prey, more defense, etc"...this happens in bullfighting bull bloodlines, except the traits are not prey drive, etc. Fight drive, hardness, willingness to take the fight to the man and heart to stay there...are present in bullfighting bulls.

As for the civilized world allegations, Portugal, Spain, southern France are not civilized countries?

You know Mark, if we were to discuss the "civilized" concept I could bring several very uncivilized things happening in your country...but these things pertain to humans, not some gamebred animal being used in what it was created to do.

I choose to leave it at that, for I REALLY learned to respect other countries, even if I disagreed with some of their traditions. That, in my humble opinion, is the ultimate definition of "civilized".

Best regards

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Tiago Fontes

· #23 · Dec 8, 2013

Mark Horne said:
The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.” ― Mahatma Gandhi;

I disagree.

The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its citizens are treated - Tiago Fontes

Tiago Fontes

· #29 · Dec 8, 2013

Catherine Gervin said:
i don't believe you have the credibility to alter a quotation attributed to Ghandi.

I will "whatever" the rest of your post simply because I do not care about your feelings on bullfighting, nor do I really care about changing your views. I only commented when you said my "pals" should be "sterilized", because, truth be told, that is way too silly.

As far as my credibility... Let me tell you something:

I never accept things just because they were said by X,Y,Z person. I could care less if Ghandi, Mandela, Mother Teresa, came up with the sentence.

I find the quote ridiculous. That is my personal opinion, whether I have credibility before you or not.

Can you live with the fact that I find Ghandi's quote ridiculous? I mean, am I allowed to find it ridiculous? In a free world, I should be able to say it's ridiculous...whether my statement is ridiculous itself or NOT.

Kindest regards,

Tiago

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Tiago Fontes

· #30 · Dec 8, 2013

jamie lind said:
What's it say about American culture when bull fighting and whaling are compared to genital mutilation and burning to death of humans.

To me it is just the confirmation of the saying:

Opinions are like assholes and everyone's got one... Then I add:

Use it as wisely as possible!

Regards

Tiago Fontes

· #31 · Dec 8, 2013

maggie fraser said:
Some interesting reading and facts...http://www.bullfightingfreeeurope.org/

That website is just like PETA and pet ownership... in one word BIASED.

It is a website owned by an organization wanting to end bullfighting...

What happens when one day you find a website that shows terriers at work, loaded with words against it? What happens when you cannot ride a horse, because the horses get injured from "carrying a human on its back"?

What happens when you no longer can work your dogs, because dogs are "our companions and not weapons"?

Anything can be twisted to suit an agenda. Remember that and teach yourself to become rational and judge situations from a standpoint of reason, not mass thinking or emotions.

Only my opinion

Tiago Fontes

· #33 · Dec 8, 2013

Yes, you're entitled to your opinion.

Tiago Fontes

· #35 · Dec 8, 2013

maggie fraser said:
Why thank you kind sir.

It's the wrong one, though ;-) lol

(Kidding).

Tiago Fontes

· #37 · Dec 8, 2013

Put darkness behind your back and become enlightened...

Tiago Fontes

· #39 · Dec 8, 2013

Alright Maggie. Bullfighting is cruel and I shall stop attending bullfights from now on. ;-)

Am I morally a better person now? lol

Tiago Fontes

· #41 · Dec 8, 2013

maggie fraser said:
Now then, how hard was that ?

BTW, I could break that article into pieces and present another side of the story, but it would be time consuming and possibly pointless, given my audience.

To answer your question:

It was very easy. No more bullfighting for me...the internet article made me realize my whole existence was imoral!

Thank you ;-)

Tiago Fontes

· #43 · Dec 8, 2013

More than ever... Given my newly acquired moral purity!

Tiago Fontes

· #49 · Dec 9, 2013

Ok Catherine, I will be sure to keep my "regards and shabby blood sport entertainment" away from you...lol

No worries.

Tiago Fontes

· #51 · Dec 17, 2013

Harrison Graham said:
The use of animals in entertainment, such as bullfighting, is inherently unethical and not morally justifiable.

Ok.

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