Gees Lou- You need to lighten up. My comment about the report correction was some humor about you tearing me a new one. If thats a cheap shot in your view, I apologize for your perception. Again, it was meant as humor not a personal attack.
Pete I'd suggest that if you intend for something to be taken as "humorous" when there's a chance that can be taken otherwise, is that you use the occasional "lol" or a smiley. People who study this stuff tell us that about 50% of communication comes from such things as body language, tone of voice, and facial expressions. Since we don't have those things here, it's easy to err and misunderstand some meanings. Had you thrown in a smiley, more than likely, all you would have gotten was my last sentence about never running out of red ink.
As far as being an expert- I have never claimed to be an one.
When you authoritatively make statements about "what Ecollar does what" as you did, someone who knows little or nothing about Ecollars will assume that you know what you're talking about. People who know Ecollars, but don't know the product line, well may also be confused if you give out information that is not accurate. You made several errors of fact that might mislead someone into making the wrong purchase.
I give my opinions and realize that just like all opinions, some may not agree with me.
Not one of my comments about the products, was about opinions Pete. They were all matters of fact.
If I made a mistake about features of Dogtra, I will stand here and be spanked and accept it. Uncle Lou is correct that the higher end models of Dogtra have a stronger stim level. I was wrong because I was going off a comparison chart for the models that I sell. Non of which are the low/medium models.
I'm sorry Pete, but you got it wrong again. Dogtra offers Ecollars with two ranges (not levels) of stim. One group has power (of the stim) in what they call "the low to medium range" and the other is in "the low to high range." The highest level of stim that the first group has, is about 2/3 of the highest level of stim that the second group has. However, this was not under discussion.
The collar that you mentioned, the 1900 is in the "low to high range." You told people that "the only difference you get as the numbers get higher is range and more money."
That's incorrect, as I pointed out in my response to you. There are quite a few significant advantages to the higher numbered (and more expensive) units.
However.....I disagree with you on the need for 127 stim levels...again, just my opinion, not a personal attack on Uncle Lou.
Pete this is a matter of opinion and while I disagree with you, and have demonstrated the advantage of it many times, I can't "correct" you on this. There is no right or wrong, as there is with facts. You are entitled to whatever opinion you like. We work and train differently. You see nothing wrong in using high level stim (as evidenced by your "2 receivers"
on one strap for "very stubborn dogs"
comment) on a police dog and I know that it negatively affects the search work by focusing the dog on the handler instead of on the search. You work against the dog's natural drives at times (the reason that you need two collars) and I strive to work with them.
I like the positive click of the Tritronics system because I like to look at the dog and know that I'm not going jump way up in levels from a 40 to an 80 because I didn't need to look at the LCD displayand take my eyes off the dog, again, my humble opinion.
Well Pete, this is NOT a matter of opinion. There's no need to "look at the LCD and take [your] eyes off the dog,"
with the Dogtras. I've never had, even the rankest of beginners "jump way up in levels, from a 40 to an 80."
You just look at the stim level when you start working with the dog, set it to the appropriate level, and after that, you watch the dog. Since some here require video as proof, I'll offer this. Tell me how many times this handler (trained by Donn Yarnall BTW) looks at his transmitter. CLICK HERE
Here's another handler (also trained by Donn) using the Dogtra. Again, see how often he looks at his transmitter. CLICK HERE
For those who don't bother to look at links, NEITHER of these handlers EVER looks at his transmitter to set the level while the dog is working. These are clips from the Dogtra video "Guidance Training" done by Donn Yarnall. Those people who think that they need to look at the LCD screen are either newbies, who don't realize the reality or those who have not been properly trained in the Ecollar. There may be another force at work here and that is a basic human need to classify things, to put them into categories, slots and levels. It's not necessary to look at the transmitter with ANY brand of collar. Once you've been taught the correct way to work an Ecollar, you don't need to look at the transmitter to determine the level except at the very start of the work. After that you watch the dog. It takes but a little practice to learn to do it this way.
The need for up to six dogs is mostly for the hunting guys and trainers.
I think you'll find that TT created these units for the hunting guys. Any trainers who are doing this, and I bet that they are in the minority, are taking advantage of a system that was created for people who run packs of hounds. I'd bet that trainers who are taking dogs around to show to prospective clients or for training would rather have a couple of collars, just in case one goes bad or turns up with dead batteries. If it's done as you propose and that happens with the one transmitter that's controlling six collars, you're out of luck. When I was training two dogs of my own, I had BOTH a two dog collar and another single dog unit, in case one of them went belly up. In any case, I think the situation you describe, is relatively very rare.
As far as training just the pack leader- I'm not a hunter and haven't trained a pack of hunting dogs.
Me either. But I know the history of Ecollars. They were originally invented for hunters who ran packs of dogs. Occasionally they'd start chasing "the wrong game." Back then, and for decades after, Ecollars had only one collar unit. The need to correct other pack members is extremely rare, and, as I've said, it's a rare trainer who can pick the right dog and the right stim level with six buttons under his thumb.
I think that part of this (being able to marry six collars to one transmitter) comes from the computer model of sales. You have to have something new every couple of months. If you don't you'll be behind the curve and your competitor will have those features while you don't. It's great marketing, but has little real application, especially for police service dogs.
I also like the feature of being able to marry any transmitter to any receiver without sending it to the company to be programed.
Pete you just did it again. If you purchase any of these Dogtra units; the 2300, the 3500, the 300, the 7100, the 7000, the 2500 or the RR Deluxe series, you can marry additional receivers to them. You DO NOT have to send anything back "to the company to be programmed."
2 receivers can be used at low levels or briefly at a high level but then reduced down to a lower level. It gives some balance to the correction which some dogs need. Again, my opinion which some may disagree with.
Again, there's no need to use two receivers even "briefly at a high level" to get a dog to do anything. I've gotten the out from dogs that fought through cattle prods, using just one Ecollar. It's a matter of knowing how to work with the dog's drives, instead of against them.
I haven't experienced an inability for either system to not transmit through a chain like fence and I usually have my eyes on the dog when I press the stim button so the need for me to transmit over a hill or through a building hasn't been necessary for me at this point.
Pete I really wish that you hadn't said this. Many people have had this issue. You can either learn from their experience or wait until it happens to you. If you do that it might be too late, and you may find yourself in hot water. "There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves."
– Will Rogers.
I don't Don Yarnell personally and I'm guessing that is who you are referring to in your last post when you commented about learning from the person who taught Doug Roller.
Yes, it is. We share a common opinion on this "two collars on one strap" thing. For anyone who is interested, the correct spelling of his name is "Donn Yarnall."
As far a customer service- I've heard both positive and negative about both companies. I personally have only experience positive from both. I do like buying American though.
I too have heard both sides of both company's customer service. Do you know where the batteries in your "buy American" Ecollars come from? Let me assure you that it's NOT the US.
Maybe we can agree that you prefer Dogtra and I prefer Tritronics for LE applications. Just like some people like Chevy or Ford , Sig or Glock, taste great or less filling, etc. And for the record, I'm known for my good arrest reports...and my humor.
This is NOT just about Dogtra v. TT. It's about someone who sells these units not really knowing about their features and misinforming potential purchasers.
It's also about a very basic difference in how Ecollars are used for training LE K−9's. You think that by going to higher levels of stim you can force a dog into compliance. You're not alone in this, in fact, it's the way that many trainers work. There are some who have learned a better way. I suggest that you investigate them. At some point, with some dogs, you'll run out of power. I've worked with a few dogs like this. Instead of blasting them with higher and higher levels of stim, going to two collars on one strap, or a cattle prod, it's possible to use LOWER levels of stim, (that don't distract the dogs from their searching) by setting up training so that you're working with the dog's drives, instead of against them. If you're interested in learning about this, just let me know. Might I suggest that you start with a thorough read of Donn's site.