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What is preference and why?

Dogtra or Tri tronics or Other

23143 Views 62 Replies 31 Participants Last post by  Larry Birnholz
Hey curious to what other preferences are, I am a Dogtra guy, also am looking for the best customer service / cheapest place to buy a 3 or 4 dog system, but would settle for a 2 dog system used but still close to brand new for a fair price. Only have two dogs right now but would like the capabilities of more if need be than to have two transmitters.
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Both are great but I'm a Tritronics guy. We use them in our law enforcement seminars that we host with Doug Roller from Tactical K9.
I'd prefer to learn from the guy who trained Doug. His system takes a bit more time (a couple of days, tops) but it gives much better results. I've seen both, I've used both. The Ecollar is just part of the system that is used to get the most from the dogs.

The Pro series give you lots of different stim levels that you can choose from to meet the needs your training. The EXP transmitters ,AKA remote, in the in the Sport series can control up to 3 collars. In the other series, the EXP models can control up to 6 collars. [Emphasis Added]
The "other series" is called the "Field Series." But it's more confusing than that. In the Field Series ONLY the Classic 70 G3 and the Trashbreaker G3 can handle six collars, NOT all of the collars in the Pro series (there are six of them) can take six receivers, as you said. In the Pro Series, you can only link three collars to a transmitter. Best way to compare their features is on the comparison chart on TT website. CLICK HERE.

I question the real need to have collars on six dogs at once but I'm happy to let those who know more about this issue, school me. In many pack situations it's necessary to control only the pack leader and the rest of the dogs will follow his lead. Just about everyone who has a two dog system has, at some point, stimmed the wrong dog. I'd bet that the problem would be much more frequent with six buttons. It's rare that two dogs, much less six, will be working at the same stim level, and so, not only do you have to remember which button goes to which dog, but which stim level is the right one for each dog. I'd bet that there are very few people who can do this without error. It is good marketing though!

You can buy the collars as you need them because they are all the same and programable in the field. If you break or loose a receiver, AKA collar, you can just order one and program it when you get it. Its very simple to program the collars.
TT has a marked advantage for those who run large packs of dogs. But for the average user, this difference means nothing. Usually, systems that provide two collars are plenty enough. With many of the Dogtra units, you also can replace lost receivers by programming new ones yourself. This is the case with the 2300, the 3500, the 300, the 7100, the 7000, the 2500 and the RR Deluxe series. And with the others in the line, since you have to go to Dogtra to get them replaced, all you need to do is to supply some information that's on the transmitter to have them send a replacement collar with the correct frequency.

And for some very stubborn dogs, you can easily program 2 receivers to the same freq and place them on both sides of the neck.
This is a bit off topic but should be addressed. I've never felt the need to do this. I think that a goal of using an Ecollar with a PSD (Police Service Dog) should be to work at the lowest levels possible so that he stays focused on his searching, NOT to escalate higher and higher until, at some point you have to do something like this, use multiple receivers to get compliance. What's the next step − the cattle prod? Having to go to two receivers on one strap shows that the trainer is working against the dog, rather than with him. Instead of setting up training to allow the dog to fulfill his drives, he's working against those drives. Instead of a team that's working together, you have a trainer/handler who is trying to force his will on the dog. THIS sort of thing is what gives ammunition to those who are working to ban Ecollars around the world.

I'd suggest that instead of working with a trainer who advocates using HIGHER levels of Ecollar stim levels, that you investigate someone who can show you how to use LOWER levels of stim. It's better for the search work, and that is, after all, the reason that we have dogs.

Something you can't do with Dogtra.
Sure you can. First of all. NO ONE needs to put two collars on one strap to get more power. But even if someone wants to do this, you can get Dogtra, or any other manufacturer for that matter, to provide collar units tuned to the same frequency. Many units that Dogtra has (I mentioned them above) allow you to program another receiver to the collar, just as with the TT's. But again, there's really no need for this. It's the electrical equivalent of giving harder and harder corrections. That's the path to the sharpened pinch collar, the nail collar and the cattle prod. What happens when you run out of power? Do you plug into the house current?

If you do go with Dogtra, stay in the lower number models like the 1900 NCP. The only difference you get as the numbers get higher is range and more money.
Sorry Pete, when you go to the higher numbers, like the 2300 or the 3500 you get several things. You get the longer range you mentioned, you get the ability to program more collars to the receiver yourself and you get the quick charge capability (two hours to a full charge). With the 7000 and the 7100 you get a vibration in the transmitter that tells you that you've pressed the button. The last is useful for those who wear gloves, which includes those working in cold climates, and many of those who work tactical ops.

In LE and sport, if our dogs are more than 1/2 a mile from us, we have other issues besides e-collar problems.
If the only difference was in range, you'd have a point. But since these units have more range (more power in their output – not in the level of stim), it allows them to get a signal through in difficult receiving conditions, such as rolling hills, the presence of chain link fences or buildings that have internal metal construction. It's rarely an issue with sport dogs but it is often is with police dogs.

But I think that the real advantage of the Dogtra Ecollars is still the fact that they have so many levels of stim. This allows the stim to be turned up and down smoothly without the huge jumps between levels that collars with 8, 10 or even 15 levels have. If you're blasting, and someone who suggest two collars on one strap – because one collar is not strong enough, IS blasting; it's not going to be important. That trainer has issues that are separate from this discussion. If you want to take full advantage of an Ecollar to communicate more than just pain and correction to your dog, the Dogtra is the better choice.
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Lou Castle;32457If you're blasting said:
Lou,

I'm going to ignore most of your rant, because it's just more of the same old same old.
Multiple collars on one strap are for balance and non directional LOW stimulation. I'd suggest asking the trainers that use multiple collars (Bart Bellon) for their advise. Multiple collars on separate straps can also be used for directional training. Labeling a style of training as "BLASTING" because you don't understand, it is pathetic.
TriTronics = reliability
Short, sweet, to the point and 100% correct :)
TriTronics = reliability
Those of us who have been around for longer than others, and have been using Ecollars for that period, know that this has not always been the case. TT has had some quality problems. They've never admitted it to my knowledge, but I know that I sent my, then brand new, Pro 1000 back to them five times for repair and they were never able to fix it. The collar would work sometimes ... It would work for 4-5 stims and then stop working. Then it would work 4-5 more times and then stop for the rest of the day. Other TT users in this area had similar problems, and the people that I was in contact with, across the country, did too.

That's about the time that Dogtra sent me a collar to use to see if I liked it. I did. I put my TT in the drawer and only took it out to send it in one more time for repairs, and then to sell it on eBay. I've purposefully dropped my Dogtra 1200 transmitter, the first one that they sent me, onto hard surfaces, over and over at seminars, to show how tough it was. I stopped counting at about 40-60 drops. I once threw it across a room, almost all the way through a layer of wallboard. I let it sit overnight in a sink−full of soapy water the first night I got it. It's never needed repairs.

These days the big three, TT, Dogtra and Innotek are easily equal in quality, quality control and customer service. There are some new Ecollars on the market that show promise, Unleashed Technology, and the Einstein among them. But they have yet to pass the test of time. There are some others too, but I don't have experience with them yet.
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Multiple collars on one strap are for balance and non directional LOW stimulation.
Nope Thomas you're wrong. The one time that it's been mentioned in this discussion, was when Pete Stevens wrote this, "And for some very stubborn dogs, you can easily program 2 receivers to the same freq and place them on both sides of the neck." [Emphasis Added]. It's obvious that he is NOT using it for, as is your claim, "balance and non directional LOW stimulation." It's obvious that he's using it for the extra power that it provides. Otherwise he'd not have said anything about "very stubborn dogs."

It's true that SOME people are using it for balance with low level stim. But it's not, as you hint, the only reason for doing this. In my experience, and that of many that I've spoken to, people who are using it for these reasons are in the minority. With low level stim, rarely do the dogs try to move away from the discomfort. That is much more of an issue with high level stim. Rarely do the dogs try to move away from the minor discomfort that a low level stim brings. It's much more common that they try to move away from the pain of high level stim. THAT is where the balance that two collars on one strap brings, is useful.

I'd suggest asking the trainers that use multiple collars (Bart Bellon) for their advise.
You use the plural, "the trainers that use ..." but then you only mention one trainer, Bart Bellon. I use multiple collars when it's appropriate. But rarely is it. Oddly, Mr. Bellon never mentioned this "balance" thing that you describe at the seminar that I attended. He DID mention using multiple collars, but not in this fashion. He spoke about using them on various parts of the dog's body to achieve various ends. He may be doing this now, but when I saw him, it wasn't a concern.

Multiple collars on separate straps can also be used for directional training. Labeling a style of training as "BLASTING" because you don't understand, it is pathetic.
What's pathetic Thomas is that you think that I don't understand these concepts. I understand that this is driven more by your personal dislike for me, than by reality. It's a shame that you can't separate the two. I struggle not to respond in kind.

It's obvious that Pete Stevens is using two collars for the extra power, NOT for balance using low level stim. I've seen the person he mentioned, Doug Roller, work many times, and he's not using low level stim.
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You use the plural, "the trainers that use ..." but then you only mention one trainer, Bart Bellon. I use multiple collars when it's appropriate. But rarely is it. Oddly, Mr. Bellon never mentioned this "balance" thing that you describe at the seminar that I attended. He DID mention using multiple collars, but not in this fashion. He spoke about using them on various parts of the dog's body to achieve various ends. He may be doing this now, but when I saw him, it wasn't a concern.
Where and when did you get to attend one of Bart Bellons seminars? A large number of NVBK trainers seem to be using multiple collars not just Bart. Please explain your use of multiple e-collars other then for direction or balance.
I just sent my 2300 off to Dogtra for warranty work. The remote was stuck on 40 even though the dial was turned all the way down to 0. We'll see how they handle it.
Dogtra called me today, they are replacing the dial assembly at no charge under the warranty. They asked if while they have the collar I would like them to replace the batteries in the collar and remote, $64 charge. I haven't had any battery issues, not sure how long they're supposed to last. I got the collar in May 2010.. what say you more experienced folk?
Since it's already there, I'd go ahead and do it. Saves the hassle of having to do it in the future anyway/

DFrost
Dogtra called me today, they are replacing the dial assembly at no charge under the warranty. They asked if while they have the collar I would like them to replace the batteries in the collar and remote, $64 charge. I haven't had any battery issues, not sure how long they're supposed to last. I got the collar in May 2010.. what say you more experienced folk?
I sent back my Tri-tronics G2 receiver to replace the housing (one of the strap clips broke) they'll replace the housing under warranty but offered to replace the battery while it was there :)
The rep said the battery lasts 3 1/2 - 5 years and I've had it for a little over 3 years. I passed, figured the battery should be good for another two years and when the time comes. I'll replace it myself. Just take out two screws.
Dogtra called me today, they are replacing the dial assembly at no charge under the warranty. They asked if while they have the collar I would like them to replace the batteries in the collar and remote, $64 charge. I haven't had any battery issues, not sure how long they're supposed to last. I got the collar in May 2010.. what say you more experienced folk?
Marta if you've taken proper care of the batteries they'll last 3-5 years. "Proper care" means that you've charged the unit at least once a month if it's not in use, and that you've not left it on charge continuously when it's being used regularly, but it's not on the dog. Charging them continuously will kill the batteries pretty fast, it's about the worst thing that you can do to them. So the real answer lies with you. They're easy to change yourself but you have to be careful of a few things. There's an article, with photos, about this on my forum.
I'd hate to see what Uncle Lou would do to one of my arrest reports. Probably run out of red ink.....
I'd guess that this comes from my numerous corrections to your last post in which you gave incomplete, and at times, improper information. Instead of enlightening and informing, which was probably your goal, you did the opposite. Some of the "information" you supplied was flat−out wrong. If a police report that you'd written contained as much misinformation as your post, you're darn right it would be "bleeding red." When you try to pretend that you're an expert on Ecollars and then you spout information that's completely wrong (I'm not referring to matters of opinion, I'm speaking to matters of fact) you lose credibility.

I notice that you didn't disagree with any of my "corrections."

BTW there is no such thing as "... out of red ink."
Good GAWD Lou.........give it a rest.
Pete took a cheap shot after being corrected, and I responded to him politely and professionally.

Why don't you take some of your own advice for a change?
Pete took a cheap shot after being corrected, and I responded to him politely and professionally.

Why don't you take some of your own advice for a change?
If you think your reply was polite or professional...you're delusional. WTF are YOU to correct any/every one?
If you think your reply was polite or professional...you're delusional.
Perhaps I should check with you in the future. BWAAAAAAAAA

WTF are YOU to correct any/every one?
I hardly correct "everyone."

Several things that Pete said were incomplete and some were just wrong. If you REALLY had knowledge about Ecollars you'd know this. I filled in the blanks that he left and corrected his errors. Anyone who doubts my statements can check them on the TT and the Dogtra websites. Perhaps YOU can show me where my corrections were in error.

Wondering, WTF are YOU to question how or why I correct someone? To paraphrase ... Good GAWD Thomas.........give it a rest.

You're well on your way to getting this thread locked too!
Lou, has Dogtra ever givin you free merchandise or paid you for anything?
Gees Lou- You need to lighten up. My comment about the report correction was some humor about you tearing me a new one. If thats a cheap shot in your view, I apologize for your perception. Again, it was meant as humor not a personal attack.

As far as being an expert- I have never claimed to be an one. I give my opinions and realize that just like all opinions, some may not agree with me. If I made a mistake about features of Dogtra, I will stand here and be spanked and accept it. Uncle Lou is correct that the higher end models of Dogtra have a stronger stim level. I was wrong because I was going off a comparison chart for the models that I sell. Non of which are the low/medium models.

However.....I disagree with you on the need for 127 stim levels...again, just my opinion, not a personal attack on Uncle Lou. I like the positive click of the Tritronics system because I like to look at the dog and know that I'm not going jump way up in levels from a 40 to an 80 because I didn't need to look at the LCD displayand take my eyes off the dog, again, my humble opinion.

The need for up to six dogs is mostly for the hunting guys and trainers. For example, you go to a training site with 3 or more dogs you are training. Since you will most likely be training them one at a time, it might be nice to just have one transmitter and just flip switch when you bring a new dog out to train instead of needing to put a collar on or buying another transmitter. As far as training just the pack leader- I'm not a hunter and haven't trained a pack of hunting dogs.

I also like the feature of being able to marry any transmitter to any receiver without sending it to the company to be programed.

2 receivers can be used at low levels or briefly at a high level but then reduced down to a lower level. It gives some balance to the correction which some dogs need. Again, my opinion which some may disagree with.

I haven't experienced an inability for either system to not transmit through a chain like fence and I usually have my eyes on the dog when I press the stim button so the need for me to transmit over a hill or through a building hasn't been necessary for me at this point.

I don't Don Yarnell personally and I'm guessing that is who you are referring to in your last post when you commented about learning from the person who taught Doug Roller. But I do know that Yarnell was a pioneer in E-collars for LE and I have nothing but respect for him. However, I do know Doug personally and I've been able to do a lot of training with him. I have great respect for Doug and consider him a good friend and mentor.

As far a customer service- I've heard both positive and negative about both companies. I personally have only experience positive from both. I do like buying American though.

Maybe we can agree that you prefer Dogtra and I prefer Tritronics for LE applications. Just like some people like Chevy or Ford , Sig or Glock, taste great or less filling, etc. And for the record, I'm known for my good arrest reports...and my humor.
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I just think they're both good ecollars, they both have their negatives and positives, it simply comes down to what works best for the individual. I'm not an expert, but I know what I like, happens to be Dogtra, but that doesn't mean it's the best collar in the world nor does it mean it's the right collar for everyone.
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