[Selena van Leeuwen]

With Cesar Milan is on nomination to be removed from dutch television. People are sending signing list on around to stop the show to be shown, ´cause they think it is to cruel (using prongs wrong way).

I have never seen a show, but do you guys think of this?

 

[Mike Schoonbrood]

!???? That's just plain weird... he barely uses the prong collar, he never tells people to use a tool, he uses whatever the people have... if they have a choker, he uses a choke, if they have a prong, he uses a prong. I've never seen him give a hard correction, he controls dogs with his body language and voice more than anything... he's a behaviorist not a trainer, his job is to stop destructive/aggressive/fearful behaviors and teach the pet owners how to control their dogs.

 

[Selena van Leeuwen]

What I´ve seen on his website is indeed fine by me. I try to see a show soon.

Maybe I should add this: a lot of these people only use positive trainingstuff, no corrections, use a clicker. Prong & choker are bad and e-collar is the very bad dog abuse. They don´t like bite training IPO or KNPV.

 

[Selena van Leeuwen]

This is what I saw on a board, i´ll try to translate as proper possible. Mike will you change it for me if the translation isn´t accurate?

Teken ook! En zegt het voort!
Please sign this! And tell about it!

http://www.axci.nl/?ln=ned&id=45

Handtekeningaktie
Signing list

SBS6 programma 'Opvoedpolitie voor dieren'
- Amerikaanse versie - van de buis


Aan: SBS6

Juni 2006

Petitie Opvoedpolitie voor dieren
Aan: SBS6

In uw uitzendingen van de Amerikaanse versie van het programma
'Opvoedpolitie voor dieren' wordt naar onze mening gebruik gemaakt van
uiterst dieronvriendelijke methoden, die al jarenlang door onderzoek op het
gebied van dierengedrag achterhaald zijn.

The methods shown in the show are in our opinion outdated for years by dog behavior research

De in deze uitzendingen gepropageerde methoden kunnen schade toebrengen aan
de relatie van uw kijkers met hun hond, wat kan resulteren in gevaarlijke
situaties en veel dieren- en mensenleed. In de Verenigde Staten loopt
momenteel een aanklacht tegen de hondentrainer die volgens deze methode
werkt.
The shown methods good damage the relationship between human and canine, which could lead to dangerous situations and animal and human suffering. In the USA currently there is a law suit against a dogtrainer who works with this method

Wij vertrouwen erop dat SBS6 met ons het belang onderkent van verantwoord
huisdierbezit en zijn verantwoordelijkheid hierin neemt. Wij verzoeken u dan
ook dringend de uitzending van dit programma te staken en eventueel te
vervangen door een diervriendelijke versie, zoals de Engelse uitzendingen
van 'Opvoedpolitie voor dieren'.

We trust that you take your responsabilty, and therefore ask you to replace the show by a animalfriendly one like the english show

Organisaties die op dit moment hebben ondertekend:
signed by

- Federatie Hondensport Nederland, Valkenswaard
- Hondenbescherming, Den Haag
- Kon. Ned. Jagersvereniging, Amersfoort
- Kon. Ned. Kennelclub KNK Cynophilia, Driebergen
- Kon. Ned. Maatschappij voor Diergeneeskunde KNMvD, Houten
- Kynologen Vakbond Nederland KVN, Amsterdam
- Kynologisch Adviesbureau DogVision, Amersfoort
- Kynotrain Nederland, Sprundel
- Martin Gaus Gedragscentrum Nederland, Lelystad
- Ned. Ver. Instructeurs Hondenopvoeding en –opleiding O&O, Leerdam
- Ned. Ver. voor Gedragstherapeuten voor honden Alpha, Utrecht
- Platform Verantwoord Huisdierenbezit, Barneveld
- Practical Training Centre PTC+, Barneveld
- Quiebus Kynologisch Centrum, Goirle
- Raad van Beheer op Kynologisch Gebied, Amsterdam
- Sophiavereeniging (tot bescherming van dieren), Amsterdam
- Tinley Kynologisch Adviesbureau, Zetten
- Van Hall Instituut, Leeuwarden
- Wageningen Universiteit en Research Centrum, Adaptation Physiology Group




Initiatiefnemers:
PVH - Platform Verantwoord Huisdierbezit

Contact:
Voor meer informatie kunt u contact opnemen met het Platform Verantwoord
Huisdierbezit, e-mail: *****

 

[Mike Schoonbrood]

Yeah, that's a load of crap, the dog whisperer is very tame compared to what some people SHOULD do with their dogs!!!

I was in a pet store last week and a lady was holding a choke collar in her hand, I told her "have you considered a prong collar instead? its better for the dog" n another lady standing nearby was telling me "you mean the spikes!??? that's so cruel!" .... I talked to her for 3 or 4 minutes n explained a little about training n she listened, n started looking at the prong collars. She apparently watches the dog whisperer n is following all his advice lol.

 

[David Frost]

We run into the same problems in this country as well. There are certain groups that automatically place police and sport trainers in a class of animal abusers. The only acceptable correction to some of this group is to ignore a behavior, not give a treat or give it a "time out". We once had a complaint files by an animal rights group against our canine program because we confined the poor animal to the back of a $25,000 dollar automobile, with the a/c running, while the officer was eating lunch inside a resturant. Poor dog. I've always taken the stance that positive reinforcement is indeed, a great way to train dogs. Positive reinforcement is even more effective when the dog understands there are consequences to a miss behavior. But, that's me, often labled as a "yank and crank" trainer. I'm so ashamed.

DFrost

 

[Selena van Leeuwen]

But, that's me, often labled as a "yank and crank" trainer. I'm so ashamed.

DFrost

You to :lol: But they´re lobbying, and I haven´t seen the show yet, but what I see on his website is nothing wrong IMO...but i´m a cruel person who trains dogs for my own satisfaction and selfimage :roll:

 

[Bob Scott]

I think we should be allowed to use pinch and e-collars on some people!

 

[Mike Schoonbrood]

but i´m a cruel person who trains dogs for my own satisfaction and selfimage :roll:

Exactly! Now you're getting it! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: kidding, don't hit me!

 

[Selena van Leeuwen]

but i´m a cruel person who trains dogs for my own satisfaction and selfimage :roll:

Exactly! Now you're getting it! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: kidding, don't hit me!

I have a better punishment..you´re off the spare reservation list.. :twisted:

:wink:

ben je melig?

 

[Mike Schoonbrood]

melig? ken die word niet.

 

[Selena van Leeuwen]

Gaar, wordt je vervelend/grappig, gebeurt meestal na een lange vermoeiende dag op het werk. Misschien gebruikten ze het woord niet in de omgeving waar je ouders woonde.

 

[Connie Sutherland]

!???? That's just plain weird... he barely uses the prong collar, he never tells people to use a tool, he uses whatever the people have... if they have a choker, he uses a choke, if they have a prong, he uses a prong. I've never seen him give a hard correction, he controls dogs with his body language and voice more than anything... he's a behaviorist not a trainer, his job is to stop destructive/aggressive/fearful behaviors and teach the pet owners how to control their dogs.

Everything Mike says here is 100% correct. I have watched every episode (of each of the two years, 2004 and 2006), taped and re-watched them, seen his facility in L.A., read his book (twice), and gone to his seminars. Anyone who is saying that he is a cruel beahviorist is (IMO) trying to ride on his fame in some way, even if it's negative.

I think some people conveniently forget that the TV show is dealing with extremely screwed-up dogs....... often with dogs who try to kill, and always with dogs who are out of control, thanks to extremely bad handlers.

He is not dealing with a blank slate on those episodes..... he is often saving a dog with one last chance before euthanizing.

His book ...... a whole 'nother thing.

Someone has not done their research. JMO!

 

[Connie Sutherland]

But, that's me, often labled as a "yank and crank" trainer. I'm so ashamed.

DFrost

You to :lol: But they´re lobbying, and I haven´t seen the show yet, but what I see on his website is nothing wrong IMO...but i´m a cruel person who trains dogs for my own satisfaction and selfimage :roll:

Yeah, me too.

The term "load of crap" is very apt here. :lol:

 

[Kristen Cabe]

I think we should be allowed to use pinch and e-collars on some people!

And this is coming from the person who uses purely positive training! OH MY! :lol:

 

[David Frost]

I've watched many of his shows. He continually reminds people that what dogs are looking for is calm, assertive leadership. He uses some different words to describe some of the same things many of us do. The only thing that irritates me is; I'm not the one that got a TV show to demonstrate to someone how to get a Great Dane off the couch. If you haven't seen that episode, I can't explain it, but it was funny. He really isn't all that bad. In my opinion, he just uses some good basic principles of dog training.

DFrost

 

[Bob Scott]

I think we should be allowed to use pinch and e-collars on some people!

And this is coming from the person who uses purely positive training! OH MY! :lol:

:lol: For people! :wink:
My 21yr old son is always asking me where all this positive crap was when he was growing up. LOL!

 

[Tim Martens]

but i´m a cruel person who trains dogs for my own satisfaction and selfimage :roll:

Exactly! Now you're getting it! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: kidding, don't hit me!

I have a better punishment..you´re off the spare reservation list.. :twisted:

:wink:

ben je melig?

YES. I just moved up a spot...

 

[Hil Harrison]

havent seen a show of his either but seems a bit that the reactions are too over the top...whats wrong with a prong? :roll:

 

[Selena van Leeuwen]

Can you read the "africhting"section on "hondenforum.nl", Hil? Read it and weep(sp?weap?)...