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Matt, How do you teach a patterned building search without a long line?
When we focus on patterning in training I will set up the search in a long hall with a ton of doors on both sides. We will always set up the first bite behind the first door. The second bite will be behind the second door on the opposite side....and so on. The end result will be a dog that learns to work the door seams all the way down the hall, one after the other.

Were three weeks into a basic class now.... when we start patterning with the dogs I will video tape some of it and post it.
 

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Funny you should mention these two things. My dog will work with hand signals but in a dark building it's difficult sometimes. Impossible if the dog can't see you.

I attended a tactical K9 school a few years ago and we used the long line in a SWAT stack. It was interesting. Last night I broke out the long line in a building for the first time with this particular dog. We create a stack and searched the building on lead in increments. The dog was downed after each section was searched the we crept up to him to continue the search. It was my boy's first time doing this on line and if I had to grade him I'd give him a "C". Not too bad for his first time. You could see the confusion at first but at the end he did a bit better. I used the light to make sure he hit every door in the search if he missed one. We don't have a dedicated SWAT dog and depend on out patrol dogs so to assist the entry team now and then. It's good that the dog has seen the exercise before actually doing it for real.
We do a lot of long line work in general so our dogs are use to dragging them around all the time. We don't use them in building search though. I have been toying with the idea of combining the down with a silent whistle for some fun stealthy search stuff.... just need to stop being lazy and try it. Perhaps I will do so with my Yorkie. He is my experimental dog I try everything with before we go live with our PSD's :mrgreen:
 

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We do a lot of long line work in general so our dogs are use to dragging them around all the time. We don't use them in building search though. I have been toying with the idea of combining the down with a silent whistle for some fun stealthy search stuff.... just need to stop being lazy and try it. Perhaps I will do so with my Yorkie. He is my experimental dog I try everything with before we go live with our PSD's :mrgreen:
I use the long line a lot outdoors of course. Indoors it is a pain especially if there is a lot of things to get hung up on. The silent whistle is a novel idea. Some use the ecollar to do the same. I'd like to see a video on the whistle deal if/when you get to it.
 

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I use the long line a lot outdoors of course. Indoors it is a pain especially if there is a lot of things to get hung up on. The silent whistle is a novel idea. Some use the ecollar to do the same. I'd like to see a video on the whistle deal if/when you get to it.
We just finished week three with the new knuckle heads. I will have to start taking some video next week. I'll make a new thread on this.
 

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Interesting thread. I still use the Laser for guided searches in certain situations. There may be times when you want to clear one room before another and the pattern the dog is trained in needs to be quickly modified. For example 4 way intersections and we want to go a certain direction, opposing rooms and I want to clear the room on the left before the room on the right. The dog may not be in odor but wants to go to the right. The laser has advantages for directed searches, covert searches in the dark.

My dog has a very good foundation and training in building searches. He will do a very methodical search off lead and will check each room and door seam on his own. We do use long lines for clearing with our SWAT team, that long line offers some advantages as well. I have also been to the Skidds / Cats school. Some very good info presented there. While there are some tactical reasons and advantages to use a long line, there are some disadvantages too. My dog will go left or right and check rooms by hand signal, but that isn't effective in the dark. The flashlight technique works, but it has drawbacks as well.

I find the laser has a lot of advantages in the dark with out most of the disadvantages. I train it and I use it when it is appropriate, our SWAT guys love it. It is not a tool to make up for poor building searches by a dog, rather it is a more advanced building search technique after a very strong, methodical foundation has been taught.

JMO FWIW

Jim
 

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Laser pointer work 2nd session for target odor. The laser and the odor were paired up on one other session earlier today. Working out the alert as we go.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jASVy3ENXos&list=UU2qZ6PJgHCCrWudCncq4r8A


Please don't use this as a guide on how to train searching with a laser. I am building some cues in that will make it a reliable party trick, but not a reliable for searching in the "real" world. Pardon my shaky presentations as well.

Also a big thanks to a hard worker...
 

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Laser pointer work 2nd session for target odor. The laser and the odor were paired up on one other session earlier today. Working out the alert as we go.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jASVy3ENXos&list=UU2qZ6PJgHCCrWudCncq4r8A


Please don't use this as a guide on how to train searching with a laser. I am building some cues in that will make it a reliable party trick, but not a reliable for searching in the "real" world. Pardon my shaky presentations as well.

Also a big thanks to a hard worker...
Haha!! loved it!! Next use the laser to teach that boxer to get you beer from the fridge!!
 

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That's a Boxer. They will drink the beer then lie and tell you the fridge was empty. :-o
 

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Laser pointer work 2nd session for target odor. The laser and the odor were paired up on one other session earlier today. Working out the alert as we go.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jASVy3ENXos&list=UU2qZ6PJgHCCrWudCncq4r8A
Say there fella, word on the street is your looking for superheros.

Nice job and damn that was funny. I see you got one of those talker cats. I had one that would climb curtains and drag herself along stairs upside down when I played heavy metal but it had to be loud. Cats are curious creatures. :razz:
 

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Mystery men. (I guessed but had to check first)

Fuzzball yowls at me first thing in the morning and follows me until I go look at his food. Full or empty, he wants me to look. He is trying to teach me the joys of routine.

Say there fella, word on the street is your looking for superheros.

Nice job and damn that was funny. I see you got one of those talker cats. I had one that would climb curtains and drag herself along stairs upside down when I played heavy metal but it had to be loud. Cats are curious creatures. :razz:
 

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Nick.

Sorry to hijack ever so slightly. I do find it odd that in the whole other thread and this one there is no video of a dog working with a laser. Seems like it would be a really useful technique with predictable drawbacks.



Any vids....anyone???
 

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Discussion Starter #34
I come to learn. I don't like cats but learned they are more 'trainable' than I ever knew. Hijack excused. I did chuckle when the suspense ended and the test subject was revealed haha

One worry reference main topic is the availability of lasers and the chance someone else could interfere (on accident or intentional). I don't see the chances being high but I heard that argument against English commands, similar concept here
 

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Nothing like a little levity to keep things fun and remind us of one of the reasons we're here. Thanks Dave.

My daughter just picked up a really cool cat from the pound a couple weeks ago. He and the Chihuahua wear each other out playing stalk and chase. Really fun to watch and get a cheap laugh.
 

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I love watching cats. Beautiful movement but I'm to much of a control freak with my dogs. When I say "Here" all cats do it flip you the tail (finger) with a "maybe later" look.

I do believe they are more trainable then even many cat owners think. I just don't want to do it.
 

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Nick.

Sorry to hijack ever so slightly. I do find it odd that in the whole other thread and this one there is no video of a dog working with a laser. Seems like it would be a really useful technique with predictable drawbacks.

Any vids....anyone???
I assume you meant in the context originally asked? If not, take a look below. The others (tactical), I expect would be harder to come by for various reasons.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxEjZnrzLF8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CArLtiTXHSk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MaRFuFPOSk - something a bit different.
 

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Nicole, context yes. I was going for the specific context of follow laser then use nose or bite.

The below stuff is cool pet stuff, just like my cat. not knocking it. Just like my cat, though, they are following and not doing anything else. Although the more I do it with my cat, the quicker he is hunting for his nip when he gets to where I shut the laser off. He is definitely conflicted about which is better, the laser or the nip. I am sure that nip and laser together, laser would win for chasing vs. hunting nip which is undesirable.



I wonder if, since dogs learn better in context, if the laser pointer could be the context to make searching in new areas or with distractions easier. Laser being a cue to "use your nose here" just like a hand presenting or casting the dog or a search command or send out command.

Imagine if you could cast a dog for a track with a laser from cover..... Lots of good applications



I assume you meant in the context originally asked? If not, take a look below. The others (tactical), I expect would be harder to come by for various reasons.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxEjZnrzLF8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CArLtiTXHSk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MaRFuFPOSk - something a bit different.
 

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I cannot remember where but I once saw an advertisement for a class teaching using a laser light to direct a dog through a building search. I have seen dogs go crazy for laser pointers as a play thing but never seen them used as a useful tool in real life. Anyone use this type of method, been to that type of training?
Yes I have trained a lot of combat dogs that we trained using the laser as a directional tool. I never used it in a play mode (just having the dogs chase it). I used it to get the dogs to go to certain areas looking for armed/hidden combatants or to areas to start explosive detection. I found that the green colored laser worked best. Also, just directing the laser on one small spot the dogs did not seem to pick upon as well as say a figure 8 type pattern. It also works best starting the dog outside and “lazing” on the downwind side of an easy hide (odor or decoy) that is out of sight from the starting point. Quick and fun finds = easier and quicker results
 
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