Mike, what you hear from others about the table is what they precieve it to be if they hadn't seen it done. Now if they have seen it done and it's not done the way I do it then I can understand how they would feel about it. I'm NOT the best and don't claim to be but as in all training you have to do what the dog will let you do. If you force anything on the dog you're just asking for trouble. That's counter productive and I agree.