Oh there's a lot lot more that need to be learned from these creatures. May take more than a lifetime to know and understand what these creatures are capable of. They simply open up and reveal themselves while in the work, in many ways most of us don't think as possible. The obstacles are quite unstable and shaky as the dog gets higher, but the dog seems to know when to take it real slow and easy. Fantastic is when one applies other work on those obstacles. More fantastic is when one puts on the leash to actually work and experience it.Andy Andrews said:Outstanding :!:
Al, is there anything you can't do with the dogs? It seems like there's no limit to your imagination.
Pardon me, Gerry, but what exactly do you mean by your statement?Gerry Grimwood said:"Our chief means of influencing our dogs are eye, gesture and voice... a good trainer can do everything with these, without any other means at his disposal for punishment".
Sounds to my ears like you are brow beating them, constant chatter etc.
Not gonna happen, Gerry. 5-6 month pups do ladder work easy probably even more challenging. It's simply a matter of having a good working relationship and knowing how to do it. Really no big deal.Gerry Grimwood said:What happens to the dogs that will not go up the ladder ?
Lyn Chen said:Maybe it will be easier, Al, if you told us exactly what is going on rather than quoting Stephanitz all the time? :wink: Nice work btw.
Lyn Chen said:Well, the thing is, what Stephanitz is saying is pretty much common sense for a lot of working dog traininers, otherwise we'll just have pet dogs and our dogs wouldn't be capable of doing half the things they do. So I think that's what the issue is.
Gerry Grimwood said:Quote "Pardon me, Gerry, but what exactly do you mean by your statement?"
I don't mean to belittle what your are doing at all, but to my eyes the dogs really don't seem to be into it. Yes you have some nice obediance on them but what is the end result ??
By brow beating I meant constantly telling and encouraging them to perform, and this is what they are doing.
Just my .02
So far, you've only seen agility/obedience in man-made structures, Gerry. Of course we can make it real messy, where dogs/pups must go in groups without disturbing the structure. Then again, this is just a little portion of the entire picture. These pups are worked early so don't think that's all those pups could do. That's only part of foundation. Got a big forest right inside the property I work and the pups consider this as their second home, doing a lot of searches on all terrain under any conditions. You may not be able to compare it with what you do.Gerry Grimwood said:ok, maybe I'm at a buck 50 :lol:
But does obediance have a practical limit ? do dogs have to perform like circus dogs to prove this point ?
So, maybe this type of OB is great but at this speed these dogs are operating at any person with one arm and no legs could shinny across a beam and out a window and be gone, well maybe not once they hit the ground.
To me, it's just doesn't serve a purpose. If the whole excersise is to show complete obediance and control by the handler and it makes the day to day tasks seem like a walk in da park then I get it.
If this isn't the case then it's just too much fluff.