[Ken Thompson]

Just curious, is it more expensive to buy a PPD already trained or to buy a puppy and have someone else train it for you. I don't have any experience in training a PPD so I would have to get help. :?

 

[Connie Sutherland]

Just curious, is it more expensive to buy a PPD already trained or to buy a puppy and have someone else train it for you. I don't have any experience in training a PPD so I would have to get help. :?

1. I know less than nothing about this, being just a "regular" trainer.

2. I have HEARD about the trained-PPD prices and almost fainted.

3. I personally would be in on any training that was done with any dog I would ever own, no matter what. JMO.

 

[Bob Scott]

Connie said;
3. I personally would be in on any training that was done with any dog I would ever own, no matter what. JMO.

That covers it for me!
Even if you do have someone else train for you, eventually it wil be YOU in charge of the dog and you bettere know how to handle it.
If a preson SERIOUSLY needs what a PPD has to offer, they sure need to know how to control it.

 

[Andres Martin]

Dogs are a long term expense...
...about 12 years worth.

Unless you have a bunch of experience, time, and appropriate facilities, choosing a puppy for a PPD is a crapshoot. If you get a puppy to train and he doesn't work out for you and your LIFESTYLE...that's ALL MONEY DOWN THE TUBE.

It's FAR, FAR cheaper to buy a dog that's nearly finished...from someone that's reputable and ethical.

You should not pay more than US$7,000 for such a dog and you'll need to take a bunch of lifestyle issues into account.

 

[Al Curbow]

I've got an adult that was trained by others, it took about a month to bond with him and it's like i owned him forever, no problems. A solid dog is a solid dog no matter who the handler is i guess , i wouldn't turn my back on a great dog just cause i didn't train it, i've learned tons with this dog too,
AL

 

[Connie Sutherland]

Andres Martin wrote:
........It's FAR, FAR cheaper to buy a dog that's nearly finished...from someone that's reputable and ethical......


So then would you recommend that someone unskilled and inexperienced take along someone who is skilled and experienced to assess a trained PPD? Or how would someone find a reputable and ethical PPD vendor?

 

[Connie Sutherland]

I've got an adult that was trained by others, it took about a month to bond with him and it's like i owned him forever, no problems. A solid dog is a solid dog no matter who the handler is i guess , i wouldn't turn my back on a great dog just cause i didn't train it, i've learned tons with this dog too,
AL

Good point. So would that be your choice?

 

[Al Curbow]

Connie, my point was that the dog has to have the right stuff to be a ppd and the only way you'll know for sure is with an adult dog that can be tested. When i talked to Will R about buying marek, i told him it felt like i was cheating buying a dog that's already trained, he said "you're going to learn a lot with him" and he was right. So, for an inexperienced person, getting a dog like marek is great, and for people with tons of experience, they're not looking for puppies, they're going to look at green dogs that have the right stuff, either way, it's an adult dog. I can't say either way what someone else should do, but if you buy puppies you can end up with many dogs till you end up with a dog that's a ppd, 2 washouts are sitting at my feet right now cause i didn't know any better 5 and 4 years ago, :lol: :lol: :lol: ,
AL

 

[Connie Sutherland]

Connie, my point was that the dog has to have the right stuff to be a ppd and the only way you'll know for sure is with an adult dog that can be tested. When i talked to Will R about buying marek, i told him it felt like i was cheating buying a dog that's already trained, he said "you're going to learn a lot with him" and he was right. So, for an inexperienced person, getting a dog like marek is great, and for people with tons of experience, they're not looking for puppies, they're going to look at green dogs that have the right stuff, either way, it's an adult dog. I can't say either way what someone else should do, but if you buy puppies you can end up with many dogs till you end up with a dog that's a ppd, 2 washouts are sitting at my feet right now cause i didn't know any better 5 and 4 years ago, :lol: :lol: :lol: ,
AL

I understand. I guess my feeling wasn't much different -- it was that I would never want to have *no* involvement in my dog's training. That doesn't apply to you.

I always have "pre-owned" dogs, whether untrained or poorly trained (or even well-trained, but for some reason now in need of a home), so I didn't mean that I "must own a puppy whose only trainer had ever been me." I've never even had that experience once! :>)

On a side note, I suspect that most vendors of PPDs are not Will R.

From what I know of him and his training (from people who really do know PPDs, unlike me), he is the ethical and reputable trainer/vendor who is, by and large, in the minority.

My question about unskilled and inexperienced potential purchasers didn't include people who have access to that caliber of trainer/vendor.

I would have no idea, for example, except that I know police trainers and other professionals who do know, and who would tell me.

 

[Connie Sutherland]

I guess that training a PPD (I mean, with professional help) and finding a well-trained one to buy would both be very difficult for an inexperienced person with no trusted guidance.

 

[symeon kazanas]

A good ppd broker/trainer is harder to find than the actual dog.
Most people that buy ppd's are inexperienced handlers, with money. Take celebrities for example, many own what they think are ppd's, usually paying some insane amount for those dogs.
In many cases the dogs are even Schutzhund washouts. They bark and bite and look mean, but will not take pressure well, will not bite on various surfaces, and just don't know how to properly fight.
So unless you can really trust the person selling you the dog, I agree a green dog is the best way to go.

 

[Andres Martin]

I guess that training a PPD (I mean, with professional help) and finding a well-trained one to buy would both be very difficult for an inexperienced person with no trusted guidance.

That was easy...YES.

So then would you recommend that someone unskilled and inexperienced take along someone who is skilled and experienced to assess a trained PPD?

Another easy one...YES.

Or how would someone find a reputable and ethical PPD vendor?

Easy, but longer. If you don't have experience and contacts, and you don't know someone (well) that does, the bottom line is get a good data base, verify, verify, verify, select from it, verify, verify, verify again, see for yourself, check again, think a bit more, and protect yourself. So, first, ask breeders, K9 handlers, professional trainers, people in forums (whatever and whomever) to recommend. At this point it doesn't matter what you get in the form of answers. Then, do your homework: ask for references, and check them out. Not one or two...MANY. If the supplier does not have MANY good references, I would not go with that one. Then ask for prices, locations, time frames, guarantees, contracts, test potential dogs (with someone that knows from a nearby successfull club perhaps, whose references you also check). Find the mix and match between those factors...and then if you're interested...all you need to do is come up with the $$$!

 

[Ken Thompson]

What is the going prices for training and about how many session would it take to train a dog? :? Now, I realize there are many many many variables but those who have trained dogs, when did you start and what is the length of time to finish a dog or did you buy already trained. About how much could I expect to pay, to train a pup? I told ya'll I was new to working dogs. Gotta start some where. If I don't ask I won't know. Thanks

 

[Andres Martin]

What is the going prices for training

Depends. Some charge by the month, other for a finished product, yet others for just training direction (like at a club).

about how many session would it take to train a dog?

IF, IF, IF you have a good puppy...about two years worth of biweekly training sessions...to get a reliable PPD...additional to the daily obedience.

those who have trained dogs, when did you start and what is the length of time to finish a dog

Most PPDs get started at a few months old...and get finished at around two and a half years old...give or take a few months.

Ken?...What is it that you want/need? Why do you need a PPD? No need to go into specifics...

 

[symeon kazanas]

I agree with Andres, as far as price per session, it also depends on what area of the country you are in. Expect to have a dog close to a finished product in two years.
Then you can start with different scenarios pertaining to your specific situation. Vehicle work, indoor/outdoor assaults on handler, gunfire, e.t.c.
Also you will probably need to make some changes in your lifestyle in order to have a balanced co-existance with such an animal. Not to mention follow up training for the life of the dog.

 

[Jose Alberto Reanto]

Connie, my point was that the dog has to have the right stuff to be a ppd and the only way you'll know for sure is with an adult dog that can be tested. When i talked to Will R about buying marek, i told him it felt like i was cheating buying a dog that's already trained, he said "you're going to learn a lot with him" and he was right. So, for an inexperienced person, getting a dog like marek is great, and for people with tons of experience, they're not looking for puppies, they're going to look at green dogs that have the right stuff, either way, it's an adult dog. I can't say either way what someone else should do, but if you buy puppies you can end up with many dogs till you end up with a dog that's a ppd, 2 washouts are sitting at my feet right now cause i didn't know any better 5 and 4 years ago, :lol: :lol: :lol: ,
AL

Not all the time, Al. Even with pups you can get a good PPD candidate. I usually will go for a pup with early aggression. With the proper training, they make good and dependable PPDs.

Now the training, it's best to find a trainer that will work you and your pup (mostly its you!!) with intent to make you both a functional team. That will mean working you both in variety of stresses under all working conditions with only your intentions as your ultimate goal. Your pup will be molded this way from the start.

My opinion...