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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Some are from Sat. at the Tulsa Sch. club, some are from Dean Calderons' on Sunday


I am sooo ready!



I will get you.



I’m serious! C’mere!



Watch it with that stick, buddy!



I told you, I don’t like that stick!




I told you I’d get you!



This is mine now!



Bronwyn says, "Wow! Look at my big brother go!"

 

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bronwyn and brago look fabulous! i'm also going to third that favorite pic being the 5th :)
 

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ok, i'm like REALLY a newbie, but in that 5th pic ("the TEETH"), isn't it possible that they're building drive/frustration and someone just got a good pic?
my question was on pics #2 and 5, it looks like the line's hooked up to the prong/fur saver vs the agitation harness. and what would be the reason for that...? cause this is a young dog that just bit his first sleeve, when, becky--a month ago?
and perhaps we should take this to "bitework". but i like the pics--bitework's sexy, ya know?
 

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i think the dog is still hooked to a harness. but there is a civil test in asr but seein they are doin sleeve work i dont see the point. my dog is pretty teethy under most agitation. but thats just his temperment. that could possible be what was being accomplished. unless the were just doing a civil test
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I think I just got lucky on the "teeth" pic. I think he was over-stimulated a bit and my husband thought so as well. (He took a harder stick hit than he ever should have at this stage of the game) Luckily he did not go into avoidance over it, but it did bring out a little more aggression than we wanted to see. It seems to be working itself out over the last few days working with Dean Calderon.
 

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jeff, or someone, would you explain, in detail, why this kind of "toothiness" is too much? i'm thinking of changing clubs and really would like to know so i can be a little better at evaluating helpers (??...).
also-what drive is brago in in each pic--i have my [email protected] opinions, but would like an "expert's". just here to learn ya know!
 

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Jeff, I can't speak for PSA (they don't have a civil test persay, just the carjacking with the hidden sleeve), but the ASR civil test is NOT designed to put the dog in defense. Probably 95% of the dogs in the civil test are fully in prey. The idea is not to test whether the dog will get all snarly and showy, but to see whether the dog is fixated on equipment. There is agitation, but it is mostly vocal (some waving of a clatter), not so much actual movement. Most of the dogs fire up on command, anyway; the decoy is just there. the few dogs I've seen that DID get really defensive on the civil test didn't do so hot on their bitework. Often it's a sign of a lack of confidence, and once the decoy puts the pressure on in the next two bites, the dog's outta there. Past the entry level, though, they drop the civil and concentrate on muzzle work; though there is one carjacking with a hidden sleeve in level II. ASR and PSA are sports just like anything else, the dogs are out there having a good time. A lot of the ASR dogs are 'weekend warriors' in ASR and train for FR and MR the rest of the time. The same basic principles apply - you train the seated defense 'hello/goodbye' just like you would in FR. They might be 'aiming for more realism', but really, anything where trophies are awarded, and a bitesuit/sleeve is worn - it's a sport. ;) I guess my point is, unless your dog has a problem with vocal pressure, you can easily crosstrain for ASR and any of the other ringsports without having to do any excess defensive work.
 

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The use of that much stimulation, something I see a lot of confuses me. I mean, how much should you have to do to get a dog to bite???

My other question is how would the dog do if there was very little???

I see all this on a lot of young dogs, and I am not seeing dogs passing at a level higher than 1.

There is less of this in ring, and the dogs are going to three all the time. (not me, but others : ) )

I was wondering if any one else saw a correlation between this early work, and a lack of higher level dogs. I have had experience with this with dogs that did PP with this kind of work for years, and then when switched to Sch, were unable to title at a higher level.

Basically, the dogs were put under this amount of stress and were unable to control themselves, or inhibit themselves from the bite later on. I also think this is one of the reasons for problems with the out.

Basically the dog has been convinced that the decoy is going to hurt them, and they feel safer while biting. Or something like that.



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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
With Brago it seems to take little stim to bite. He was way over-stimulated in a couple of those pics. (They are from two different days).
He just seems to throw himself all the way into whatever he's doing, whether it's playing with a ball, swimming, tracking, whatever.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Never stop trying to assimilate everyone, do you, Borg, er, I mean, Jeff? If there was a club within any reasonable distance, you might win us over. Two hours travel time is about our max, though!
 
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