[Mister-Maple]

I have seen some brachycephalic dogs like cane corso, rottweilers, american bulldogs, and boxers participating in IPO and french ring. I cant imagine that their would be any advantage to working a brachycephalic dog. Am i missing something or do any of these breeds have enough to offer as working dogs to compensate for the limitations of being brachycephalic?

 

[Omerhaus]

Personally, I don't see any of the breeds you mentioned offering much to sport or man work, not as much due to being brachycephalic, but due to poor breeding practices or not being bred for sport/man work. Boxers' head shape has changed so much due to poor breeding they can barely grip. Rottweilers have largely become show dogs. Cane Corsos are herd guardian dogs.

 

[Mister-Maple]

Personally, I don't see any of the breeds you mentioned offering much to sport or man work, not as much due to being brachycephalic, but due to poor breeding practices or not being bred for sport/man work. Boxers' head shape has changed so much due to poor breeding they can barely grip. Rottweilers have largely become show dogs. Cane Corsos are herd guardian dogs.

Which country are you in? the u.s is mal and dutchy crazy but in europe we see a lot more diversity in sporting everything from giant schnauzers to beaucerons do well. Rottweilers and boxers here in particular are basically a different breed than the u.s. So do you mean in general or just the united states show lines?

 

[Omerhaus]

I don’t consider show lines representative of any breed. There are still some nice Giant Schnauzers. IMO, Rottweilers have emphasized conformation over what the breed was developed for over the past few decades. Can’t speak to what is going on in Europe. You don’t see many if any Rotties, Beaucerons, or Boxers as police or military dogs.

 

[Mister-Maple]

I don’t consider show lines representative of any breed. There are still some nice Giant Schnauzers. IMO, Rottweilers have emphasized conformation over what the breed was developed for over the past few decades. Can’t speak to what is going on in Europe. You don’t see many if any Rotties, Beaucerons, or Boxers as police or military dogs.

I have read that most parts of the united states are much too hot for rottweilers to work as police or military dogs is that true? Keep in mind that most houses in western Europe don't even have air conditioning as we never need it.

 

[Omerhaus]

I don’t think that has anything to do with it. Selecting for the wrong traits in breeding has resulting in the breed not being a suitable working dog. They are becoming like European show line GSDs.

 

[Mister-Maple]

I don’t think that has anything to do with it. Selecting for the wrong traits in breeding has resulting in the breed not being a suitable working dog. They are becoming like European show line GSDs.

What sort of traits have you noticed to be different? From what i have seen online i can see a very noticeable in Labrador retrievers, viszla, pointers and other gun dogs. But in reverse i would say it seems like the united states are producing far more athletic and working driven gun dogs than we are here. But it also seems as though the doberman is much more unstable in both physical and mental health in the u.s

 

[Omerhaus]

Like I stated, Boxers bred with deformed mouths and lack of drive and nerve, diluted aggression in Rottweilers favoring looks, Dobermans no longer have the aggression and sharpness they were developed for. Can’t address gun dogs. Even the breeding of GSDs and Mal/Mal X’s has shifted. IMO, IGP has influenced selection of very high prey, less aggressive GSDs whose nerves are not challenged by the sport. Even the Dutch non FCI Mal X’s are primarily extreme prey and hunt drive drive dogs with anything resembling social aggression lost, but because their prey is so extreme, fight is still very good.

 

[Kirsten Fitzgerald]

Think of it this way....
Form follows function is a popular saying in breeders here.

So you select and breed for a purpose by choosing the dogs that excel at the job, in the environments they work in, and over time the dogs appearance comes to reflect both the environment and the dogs purpose.
So the breeds we have today were formed.
There was nothing artificial in that selection process, Domestic Dogs natural environment, was its Human environment and the usual laws governing selection of a species were in place.

Then came the Kennel and sporting groups, who set out breed standards and preferred traits. Form, or 'states' of being to qualify breeds and jobs. Those 'forms' now qualify eligibility to breed and working status. And function does NOT follow form.
Qualification is a reductive measure, and dogs are seldom selected for ability of response to the environments and purpose they are supposedly bred for, but for the form they qualify.

 

[Kirsten Fitzgerald]

Dogs are more often selected from puppies, before they have developed, on the basis of how well they conform to breed type in show animals, and for sport/work, drives that facilitate or compliment the training methods used, rather than how it all comes together for the dogs purpose, in the environments it will experience.


Many years of working dogs of all types. A good working dog, to me, is one that does the job naturally. Training is mostly to show the dog how and when you want the job done.