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Discussion Starter #1
went to a seminar hosted by a world famous photographer
- it was a combination of discussion of how to control light as well as practical demos of how to do just that

- another huge lightbulb went off !
- the best takeaway i have EVER learned and it also applies DIRECTLY to dog training :)

so if you had to boil it down to the one, single most important takeaway you've ever seen or heard about dog training, what would it be ?

doubt anyone here is that interested in photography, so i'll spare the examples he used. but if you are, i'd be glad to PM a few :)
 

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went to a seminar hosted by a world famous photographer
- it was a combination of discussion of how to control light as well as practical demos of how to do just that

- another huge lightbulb went off !
- the best takeaway i have EVER learned and it also applies DIRECTLY to dog training :)

so if you had to boil it down to the one, single most important takeaway you've ever seen or heard about dog training, what would it be ?

doubt anyone here is that interested in photography, so i'll spare the examples he used. but if you are, i'd be glad to PM a few :)

I was training with a small group in 1981 they were providing dogs to the air force via Barksdale Air Base in Louisiana. I kept doing bone headed things with the dogs out of ignorance as do most apprentices. The lead trainer came over and said "Brian you are still training the dog you had a week ago this is a different dog... WORK THE DOG THAT IS STANDING IN FRONT OF YOU" ... best advice I have ever been given.

The point of the story of course being this: Each dog is an individual even within a litter. So each dog requires working with according to their individual temperament, abilities and limitations. We all tend to get caught up in the idea of "training" as if there is a universal fit and system for training dogs. There is a universal system its called "reading the dog" and dynamically changing the method of training to suit the particular dog.

The point to remember about training dogs... we can all learn from others and sometimes the people you would least expect AND from the dogs.
 

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... WORK THE DOG THAT IS STANDING IN FRONT OF YOU" ...

The point of the story of course being this: Each dog is an individual even within a litter. So each dog requires working with according to their individual temperament, abilities and limitations. We all tend to get caught up in the idea of "training" as if there is a universal fit and system for training dogs. There is a universal system its called "reading the dog" and dynamically changing the method of training to suit the particular dog.
I agree and would say that's probably one of the most universal truths in dog training that exists and probably one of the mental blocks most difficult for certain people to overcome, particularly those who don't see the value in what exactly it amounts to.
 

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I concur with Brian. Plus "shut up and let the dog work".
 

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"shut up and let the dog work".
I heard those exact words the very first time I saw a young GSD turned loose for his first ever venture into doing an area search using only his genetics. I wanted to interfere so badly ... and the bad part is I still want to interfere LOL ... but watching a well bred dog with that drive is amazing.
 

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I agree with "Work the dog in front of you".

What is a necessity to go along with that is "Learn to read the dog".

When I was in SAR one thing that always came up was "Trust your dog".
 

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Adding to that - "Ensure the outcome you want to occur (see)." In simpler terms, don't do something or not do something that might set the dog up to fail.
 

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Adding to that - "Ensure the outcome you want to occur (see)." In simpler terms, don't do something or not do something that might set the dog up to fail.

Agree!

If the dog requires proofing I want to build on that slowly and not just toss the dog in the middle of a high level distraction where a correction is probably needed.
 

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almost unanimous !
would this be ruffly equivalent to :
"Read your dog"
??

Pretty much for most advanced trainers.

I've said it before but I think some will do that more naturally then others.

Some will learn with time and experience.

Some will forever train because "that's how I was told to do it". ](*,)
 

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almost unanimous !
would this be ruffly equivalent to :
"Read your dog"
??
Read Dog=communication ...cant read dog......cant communicate...cant communicate it aint happening lol
 

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Discussion Starter #15
getting ready to hang up my leads and muzzles and REALLY enjoying getting back into photography. could never do it when i was on active duty, and the bod is getting too old to the really fun work dogs anymore. since closing our ballet/flamenco business, i’ve been converting the space into a photography studio

so i went to a seminar a few weeks ago and watched a world famous photographer give a hands on presentation and ‘bam’, another light bulb went off relating to dog training.
- why i started this thread

this guy has photos in many galleries and his work is recognized around the world. it was mind blowing how he understands lighting and he demonstrated some super techniques.
- any photographer knows “it’s all about lighting", but he took it a step further and explained in detail how he composed his shots to use available light and then add and subtract other light sources to get the look he was after. another amazing aspect of his technique was how he uses SIMPLE tools to set up very complex shots.
- like everyone else i was taking LOTS of mental notes and Iphone recordings trying to soak it all in and not miss anything

but after awhile he suddenly changed his tune and said he was probably wasting his time giving the seminar. That comment made everyone do a double take :)
…...he then asks, “why did i just say that ?”
because the vast majority of the you will NEVER try any of these methods and simply file it away as “cool”, “right on”, or “wow, i never thought about that before”….or you might try it once or twice, but you’ll just be trying to copy what i did…. or maybe you just make a note //LOL//
……….“because you don’t realize that for every picture i took that people thought was great, i’m sure i took hundreds more of the same set up before i was satisfied with what i did"

that statement made me go back and try and remember the “good stuff’ i have either heard about, read, or watched in person over the years. it’s a long list and has gotten even longer since it’s so easy to find help on the internet these days, so i was guilty as charged :)
- so many valuable lessons and techniques that i had never tried :-(

nowadays it's sooo easy to agree, disagree or simply shoot the messenger and make a joke of the whole thing online. look at ANY yoube vid and read the comments. more than half don’t have a damn thing to do with the topic and are simply wise ass remarks :)
guess that’s the state of online media and people who participate. such is life … and no biggy :)
- or simply say "thanx for the help....then move on"

we’ve all been guilty of this at one time or another, but i don’t intend to make the same mistakes in my photgraphy. i’m gonna take that advice to heart and i’m sure it's a valid takeaway for dog training too.
- why are we all guilty ? the answer is partly simple : we’re lazy :)
- but also because dog training takes a helluva lot more patience and effort than we’re usually willing to apply
- if you read, hear or watch something valuable, don’t just file it away … DO IT AND LEARN
*** and then give feedback to others based on what you’ve DONE, rather than “heard about” or “read about” ***

was a BIG light bulb for me and i wanted to pass on.
How many great training ideas have you read about ?
How many great trainers have you watched …either in person, in a dvd, or online ?

that’s my best takeaway ever
soaking up information and never doing anything about it

i've seen it here a LOT over the years and know it's relevant to any kind of dogwork, even tho i learned it from a guy who may have never owned a dog !
 

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Best tip I ever got was basically a mantra...... "Where knowledge ends, violence begins". I saw it in pretty much every handler I ever met. I thought, hmmmm. The compulsion comes when a trainer doesn't have the skills or knowledge to drive a dog to want to do something willingly and subsequently the force is put upon the dog. It changed my training 100%. Glad I listened.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
re : "Where knowledge ends, violence begins".

yep ! and the best handlers and trainers i've seen NEVER got frustrated with any dog they were working with and that's a skill that's way easier said than done :)
 

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re : "Where knowledge ends, violence begins".

yep ! and the best handlers and trainers i've seen NEVER got frustrated with any dog they were working with and that's a skill that's way easier said than done :)
This is true but...my compulsion training dropped 95% which made me a better trainer and produced a better product. No-one is perfect, cept'n Jesus.
 

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was a BIG light bulb for me and i wanted to pass on.
How many great training ideas have you read about ?
How many great trainers have you watched …either in person, in a dvd, or online ?

that’s my best takeaway ever
soaking up information and never doing anything about it
This is very true. I've met some very good trainers. I've met one great one. Some dealt with dog training. Some dealt with how I deal with dog training. The very good ones focused on my dog. The great one focused on me, which trickled down the lead to the dog(s). I think it's not so much of doing what they do but rather take their ideas as the starting point and adapt them to you. I will never be a Ellis or a Tolhurst but that doesn't stop me from shamelessly taking their ideas and running with them.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
re "I will never be a Ellis or a Tolhurst but that doesn't stop me from shamelessly taking their ideas and running with them."

EXACTLY
that was the part of his advice that i have trouble explaining in words

absolutely nothing wrong with trying to copy great techniques
but so many people stop at only the copying stage and never develop get better. like photographers who always ask "what were your camera settings when you took that shot ?"

you can see some "B" in "E", but both have gone way beyond copying and both can be considered top level

i have one great example of a guy who tried to copy Cesar //lol//
but i've told that quite a few times so it's boring as hell :-(
 
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