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may or may not be applicable here....

Stefan...did I see correctly that you used Bill Kulla's dog, Kway for a breeding...

Did you have any personal knowledge of ASKO?

I have heard that on the field he was a machine, but in the kennel and off the field, he was a basket case...hiding in the back, with his hackles up...

is that true or false info? just curious...
Asko was one of the top producer from the last years. he was not easy, not social. outside he was real dominant. a lot of people want a strong dog,high dominance and best no one else can touch him and must protect the family.

but no one can life with the time where this kind of dog is growing,this dominance is not a sign of being strong it have grow out of being not sure with things. most of these kind of dogs get early sold because we can not live with this, but we can live with the end product.

asko for sure have produce kind of these dogs, at the beginning you hate them for his behavior and at the end you love him. i would do it again.

kway was in my club in germany, real bad behavior when he was young,but all time great in work.he gets older and his behavior better.bill was able to fix all and was successful with him.he was only sold because his owner quit dog sport. when i was 2007 here for a seminar i worked a son of him, for me one of the best young dogs of the last years, worked him again 2008 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXt8M3sissU
.this dog in germany have made for sure 50 studs.


 

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Can you please elaborate? Some things I did not quite understand and would appreciate if you took the time to explain.


Thanks again
No I really can't because I'm not an expert the way Stefan Schaub is, so I can't say what or where the behaviour sprang from as far as fear based or dominant, though personally I always thought it a nerve/low threshold issue? Hopefully Stefan will chime in. All I can say is when the dog was young he was not a fun dog, not one who was social or even always neutral outside of his own environment. As he matured, he became reliably neutral/social outside of his own environment, at almost 8, he is still not social in his own environment, but definitely not hiding in the back hackles up.

Also in the beginning he was not a safe dog for helpers. He would do bad things like try to go over the sleeve try to get the neck or under the sleeve to bite the stomach. It took a long time for him to not hate everyone else. As Mark used to say "he just really doesn't like people, he's a mean dog".
 

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I know a guy named Vit Singh who recently imported an Asko son, Gonso vom Wieratal. I have seen him work a couple of times.

He recently bred him to his girl, Akira vom Forsterhaus. I think that they have puppies on the ground in case you are interested.

Anyway, Vit loves to talk dogs, so here is his contact information,


http://interviewswithvit.blogspot.com/
vit is for sure a nice guy but does not have the experience to talk about asko. only he bought gonso full trained does not make him more knowledge about asko.

I have work for sure more than a hundred asko kids,grandkids and grand grandkids.have use him for my breeding program in first generation second and third and now already in fourth. used asko when he was 12 years old.have wait long time before i used him.have first used a asko son out of my training and than him self. have sold a Asko grandson because i have hate his behavior, at the end i have pay money to use him as stud.
 

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With mine it was also difficult because where I was, no one knew how to correctly do helper work with a youngster like this, to bring out the best in him. So I would go visit Dean and Mark in Oklahoma and they would work so hard freeing him up, then come home but all their hard work would quickly be screwed up again, back to Oklahoma and square one and so on. Then Dean came out to Calif for about 4 months straight which was really great, things really started to gel, then Mark Saccoccio moved back here for a couple years. Mark worked very hard straightening out the problems that were created by others, and it took a long time, but in the end (thanks to Mark), he became a very fun dog.
 

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susan,,, does this sound like something you could get on board with?

I think it may just have a lot to do with internal conflict with the young dog in some cases, that the dog is not sure of what he should do, how he should react, or what is expected of him

sort of like a young dog showing social aggression, or dominance that he is not yet mature enough to back up. He may have urges, but is not mature enough to make sense out of them, or use them to any real degree.

I think that dogs that are not social dogs by nature, will be more apt to go through some of what is being talked about here.


 

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susan,,, does this sound like something you could get on board with?

I think it may just have a lot to do with internal conflict with the young dog in some cases, that the dog is not sure of what he should do, how he should react, or what is expected of him

sort of like a young dog showing social aggression, or dominance that he is not yet mature enough to back up. He may have urges, but is not mature enough to make sense out of them, or use them to any real degree.

I think that dogs that are not social dogs by nature, will be more apt to go through some of what is being talked about here.
Yes.
 

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So what behaviors do you see? Lunging, barking at strangers? Is it always forward movement or do they retreat? At what age did these behaviors cease. Was it a matter of age or socialization, conditioning, etc. Is it just people or environmental? Would it be better even to delay the bite work training until they mature?

For me if they were truly spooky, they wouldn't grow out of it. The dogs I've seen test at 7 weeks or so, sound as a dollar--very social and environmentally confident. Then somewhere after 16 weeks, they start phasing and you see what could be described as fear, spooky, or nervy behaviors. Handled right, they outgrow it and are very sound, reliable adults.

T
 

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To me, a spooky dog is one who is scared of his own shadow, a fear biter is spooky, so that wouldn't be an accurate description of my dog now or as a young dog or any of the Asko progeny I know.
Spooky to me is a pup who gets spooked by some things. Not a fear biter but might be suspicious of something for no apparent reason.
 

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Chris, I know where you're coming from. It sounds and feels better to characterize it in terms of the Armin quote but when it comes right down to it--spooky behavior. The dog startles. It can be noise, different visuals or objects in the environment or different movement by or people in general. Spooky, nervy, fearful, reactive--whatever.

T
 
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