Arguements against bite training

The guy I train with has a 4 dog trailer which is very well ventilated with cool water for his dogs in each compartment... he went for a 2 hour lunch with the trailer parked in the shade, got back out to a hysterical woman and her hubby freaking out because this cruel man had his dogs in a trailer on a warm day. She was yelling about how she was with the sheriff's office n she was calling the cops blablabla. Turns out she was just a dispatcher n coulda gotten in alotta trouble for her lil act there. She literally went around the trailer pulling the outer doors open n lifting up the equipment storage lid. She called the cops, my trainer called a guy in the K9 unit, they sent a car down n basically told the lady that they knew the trainer n the dogs are fine n basically, get lost.

It's nice n all that people are concerned about the animals... but some people needa stop freaking out about things like working dogs being in a clearly well ventilated trailer for a few hours... these dogs are kennel dogs, it's not like they're not used to the heat.

I know someone who believes dogs shouldn't be worked unless they have a job, but working a dog for sport is cruel and just for human amusement. She entirely refused to believe that the dogs enjoy their work n that there are dogs in the world who's drive is so high that running around a fenced in back yard all day n playing fetch a few times a day isn't gonna cut it for exercise....

Point being... people just don't understand, n once they get roped into a certain belief with peer pressure from other like-minded morons, you're never gonna change their minds.

Dogs don't needa be taught how to bite, they already know how to bite... training teaches em a) to do it better and b) when not to do it, but they will never understand because their precious lil fluffy would never bite someone so it's beyond their scope of thought to imagine that there is a dog out there who just enjoys to bite, n does so as soon as there's teeth with which to bite.

The 2nd link is just a story from a CRIMINAL. His friend sped off: they were obviously doing teh wrong thing. He says they had to pry the dog off...do we know that to be true? No. The LEO's side of the story is not printed there.

Further, the man is out for money. Can't get a job b/c of a dog bite? How so? I don't know of any employers who would say, "Oh no..you can't work for me with that disfiguring scar under your PANTS all day long! No sireee bob." Could it maybe JUST be that he can't get a decent job b/c he's a convicted criminal????

As for the first lady: she's full of it. Very easy to make things look the way she wants them to look.

And I understand Jeff's comment about PETA. It does some oddball stuff to futher it's disgusting agendas. They are for the eradication of companion animals and animals at work, and in that vein do not support no-kill animal shelters, support bans on pit bulls (including having them euthanized at intake at shelters nationwide), and have killed tens of thousands of animals themselves after taking them in the name of "rescue." Very scary organization.

Stacia Porter said:

The 2nd link is just a story from a CRIMINAL. His friend sped off: they were obviously doing teh wrong thing. He says they had to pry the dog off...do we know that to be true? No. The LEO's side of the story is not printed there.

Further, the man is out for money. Can't get a job b/c of a dog bite? How so? I don't know of any employers who would say, "Oh no..you can't work for me with that disfiguring scar under your PANTS all day long! No sireee bob." Could it maybe JUST be that he can't get a decent job b/c he's a convicted criminal????

As for the first lady: she's full of it. Very easy to make things look the way she wants them to look.

And I understand Jeff's comment about PETA. It does some oddball stuff to futher it's disgusting agendas. They are for the eradication of companion animals and animals at work, and in that vein do not support no-kill animal shelters, support bans on pit bulls (including having them euthanized at intake at shelters nationwide), and have killed tens of thousands of animals themselves after taking them in the name of "rescue." Very scary organization.

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I think I qualified my post enough...I'm just saying that, according to the story presented, my understanding is that the dog erred when it did not release. That's all. I recognize the context for the story as it is. I was just curious and responded to Sarah's post. I took it as a situational anecdote as it was because I'm curious to hear one of our LEOs comment on whether that was a dog error (i.e., not releasing off of a bite). It's a seperate issue as to whether the dog was showing good judgement. It's the web, people present bias all the time.

Here's the PETA FAQ. They support companion animals but prefer those animals come from shelters, they educate people about pet store dogs, they support euthanasia shelters, they support spaying and neutering for pet owners, they advocate against tying out dogs, they are against cat declawing...these are not lunatic liberal positions, whether you agree with these points or not (I happen to agree with all these points). They also have some viewpoints some of you might consider more extreme, like veganism, anti-fur demonstrations, and no caged birds, but hey...I hate parakeets and seeing rich old women get some red water spashed on their brand new ermine jacket makes me extremely happy on a lot of levels (even though I know this is wrong).

My guess is they are like every other extreme left or right wing group in our great country, in that there are factions within their organization who will jump the thin line between freedom of expression to freedom to do as they please. But hey, thank goodness we live in a country that can tolerate PETA and freerepublic.com. Both places bug the hell out of me, and both places harbor facist nuts with different uniforms on. Whether your position is "animals should not be abused" or "the federal government is too involved in peoples' lives" you will get extremes like ALF as well as Timothy McVey. These are the risks we have as a democracy, and why (IMO) it's crucial to understand as many points of discussion as possible, whether you agree or not. That's why I love open forums like this.

I'm not a PETA apologist, I'm just trying to figure out (back to Jeff's original post! ;-))why there would be a concern about voicing opinion on accidental bites by a dog enthusiast community for fear they'd be taken out of context or that there would be some kind of targeting from the fringe groups. I guess that's a risk, but any of you sharing your real names have been at risk all along for that stuff. I would be a lot more worried about dog enthusiasts that surf these forums looking for fights that can escalate to something else, but that's why I got a working GSD for my house. :lol:

I'm kidding. But I don't think a one-off discussion about accidental bites will change and/or strengthen the positions of some of the nitwits out there, including the www.stoplynching.com person. That's what I was initially trying to understand from Jeff before his poor thread got yanked in many different directions. I would have shut up after that, because I dont' know anyone who's taken a bite as he's asking the question.

QUOTE from Woody:

They support companion animals but prefer those animals come from shelters, they educate people about pet store dogs, they support euthanasia shelters, they support spaying and neutering for pet owners, they advocate against tying out dogs, they are against cat declawing...these are not lunatic liberal positions, whether you agree with these points or not (I happen to agree with all these points). END

I happen to agree with these positions too. And I accept that slaughter animals will always be bred and raised for food, but I will never accept that inhumane conditions and slaughter, and a life of misery, terror, pain, even agony, is acceptable just because they are born to be eaten.

What I don't agree with are terrorism tactics (which I do realize are the products of an extremist faction), the idea that dogs trained for SchH, sled-pulling, and other sports are abused (that is, that there is abuse inherent in the training and the actual competitions), and also some beliefs that in my own opinion may be generated by a skewed view of animals as furry humans (oversimplified, I know).

So while I consider myself an activist for the humane treatment of companion, farm, service, wild, and slaughter animals, I am careful which orgs I support and work for.

I want to add one other point that it took me a while to really "get." No-kill shelters can be a source of misery, IMO. Now that I know about shelter-crazed dogs, I have a slightly different view of no-kill shelters. Many mean "no-kill except for animals that canNOT be placed," but not all of them do......... and that's a very gray area for me.

And now I have contributed to hijacking Jeff's thread, and I apologize.

QUOTE:

I really have not had enough incedents during training over the last however many years to take notice. Spastic puppies on the tug account for all but one of my injuries as far as a bite is concerned. I have hurt my back catching really fast dogs, my knees from all the torqing that occurs from the bungee work, and the occasional dog that hits the kneecap area on entry.

I don't know too many people that have been hurt from a bite. How about everyone else? END QUOTE (excerpt from Jeff's O.P.)

Standard inititiation for young helper. Just kidding. He was just learning to be an agitator. Youngish dog was tied out on pole, he did a pass, dog got the sleeve. For some reason, he reached down & tried to get the sleeve from the dog! Had his face where it didn't belong & got bit. Had to get stiches because his lip got sliced by the dogs' canine tooth. He was more embarassed than hurt.

I got bit on the training field by someone else's dog. He asked me to help him with his recall. You know, when you hold the dog, the owner goes out & calls the dog to rev him up, then you release. With this dog, the owner handed him to me, turned to walk away (wasn't more than 6 feet from me), when the dog jumped on me, bit me on the chin (punctured me pretty damn good), I put my hands up & turned & called "get your dog", so he didn't get another bite on my face, just arms. Since they were just puntures I let them bleed & then just bandaged them. No need to go to the hospital. I do still have the scar on my forearm & chin. No big deal.

The guy had bought this dog with a Sch1 on him from some guy who was selling all his dogs due to illness. This dog turned out to be pretty unstable. I wasn't the only one who got bit by him. He would be acting just fine & then bite. So, the owner stopped using him for schutzhund.

The 2nd link is just a story from a CRIMINAL. His friend sped off: they were obviously doing teh wrong thing. He says they had to pry the dog off...do we know that to be true? No. The LEO's side of the story is not printed there.

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That's exactly what I was thinking! Not only can you not trust the guy who says "I was 17... I was scared!", but I hear the title "Savaged" and that immediately puts people in a bad frame of mind.

The policeman was screaming at the dog to pull off, but it wouldn't. Then he rammed his baton into its jaws and twisted its head off my leg.

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For all those LEOs, is "ramming" your dog with a baton going to make it out? :lol:
Also, listen to the inconsistent statements in these two quotes, both from the same article from the same victim:

"I heard the van door open and the dog pounding towards me. I just froze and held my hands up - then it hit me."

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Now, if he was trying to make the point that the dog was unfairly sent on him, wouldn't he want to keep repeating how he "froze and held up his hands"?