Are Dogs Trained to Bite ..... Weapons ?

8604 Views 53 Replies 20 Participants Last post by Joby Becker, Sep 7, 2010

Jerry Cudahy

Discussion Starter · Sep 2, 2010

YES, dogs that bite are weapons

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Matthew Grubb

· #2 · Sep 2, 2010

4

weap·on

/ˈwɛp

ən/

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n]

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–noun 1. any instrument or device for use in attack or defense in combat, fighting, or war, as a sword, rifle, or cannon.

2. anything used against an opponent, adversary, or victim: the deadly weapon of satire.

3. Zoology . any part or organ serving for attack or defense, as claws, horns, teeth, or stings.

–verb (used with object) 4. to supply or equip with a weapon or weapons: to weapon aircraft with heat-seeking missiles.

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Jennifer Michelson

· #3 · Sep 2, 2010

My Urban SAR team trains on a military base. When I was new to the team and stopped at the guard, he asked me if I had any weapons in the car.....besides the dog. So even a 'non-biting' dog is considered a weapon to some.

Mike Lauer

· #4 · Sep 2, 2010

no, its a sport. does taking Tai Chi make you a trained killer?

reminds me of the old joke

woman: you're teaching children to shoot? that's irresponsible your equipping them to be violent killers.
Man: well, you're equipped to be a prostitute, are you?

Jeff Threadgill

· #5 · Sep 2, 2010

Haha that's good Mike!

Yes.

Geoff Empey

· #6 · Sep 2, 2010

Jennifer Michelson said:
My Urban SAR team trains on a military base. When I was new to the team and stopped at the guard, he asked me if I had any weapons in the car.....besides the dog. So even a 'non-biting' dog is considered a weapon to some.

Yeah I get asked about every 2nd time or so going across the border "if I have any weapons in my possession". It's funny as while I don't ever have a firearm I have a seat belt cutting lock blade, water rescue rope and a small tomahawk for breaking car windows and prying doors if I ever came along a wreck. Hard to take the first responder out of me I guess, let alone the 2 Malinois in the back of the van. I guess there is lots that 'could' be weapons.

Jim Nash

· #7 · Sep 2, 2010

I don't consider my PSD(Patrol/Narc) a weapon . It's Primary job is as a LOCATING TOOL (badguys , evidence , narcotics , tracking , etc. )

Jeff Threadgill

· #8 · Sep 2, 2010

Jim Nash said:
I don't consider my PSD(Patrol/Narc) a weapon . It's Primary job is as a LOCATING TOOL (badguys , evidence , narcotics , tracking , etc. )

True Jim, however most are non professional. Then you get into the court system blah, blah. We had a lawsuit the other week in my neighborhood, bad guy jumped the "private" fence, rotti took care of business. Now the dog is quarantined and the case is being accepted to hearing by the courts. Arghhh.

Jim Nash

· #9 · Sep 2, 2010

This is not an easy answer . If we are talking in a general context as far as PSDs , be they Patrol or single purpose Detector dogs the answer is no . If the question is asked in a much broader context the answer is almost anything can be considered a weapon depending on how it's used . I've used the example of a spoon before . In general it's not considered a weapon but if you use it in a way to harm someone in that situation it's considered a weapon .

I guess if you train a dog where it's PRIMARY purpose fall under the definition of a weapon then you have a weapon (in general speakl) . If your dogs PRIMARY purpose doesn't fall under the defintion of a weapon in general it's not a weapon . Sematics and context make this a difficult question to answer unless it's more specific .

Jeff Threadgill

· #10 · Sep 2, 2010

I agree 100%

Michelle Reusser

· #11 · Sep 2, 2010

This one yes, for that was the intent in which I purchased him. The same as the handgun I bought. Both are for my protection but I don't actively look for someone to shoot or my dog to bite.

Chad Brezina

· #12 · Sep 3, 2010

Jeff Threadgill said:
True Jim, however most are non professional. Then you get into the court system blah, blah. We had a lawsuit the other week in my neighborhood, bad guy jumped the "private" fence, rotti took care of business. Now the dog is quarantined and the case is being accepted to hearing by the courts. Arghhh.

So if you have a trained protection dog and someone is in your yard tresspassing and your dog is protecting and doing it's job why would a dog being quarantined? When is it a situation when your dog is doing the right thing by attacking. If there is a potential threat and the dog neutralizes the threat why is that illegal? Its not like you are firing a gun at the persons head and trying to kill them, you are just neutralizing the threat. Shouldn't the government reward the person for choosing a dog over a gun? It just doesn't make sense that a person tresspassing is illegal but you can't do anything to stop it either.

Jeff Threadgill

· #13 · Sep 3, 2010

Chad Brezina said:
So if you have a trained protection dog and someone is in your yard tresspassing and your dog is protecting and doing it's job why would a dog being quarantined? When is it a situation when your dog is doing the right thing by attacking. If there is a potential threat and the dog neutralizes the threat why is that illegal? Its not like you are firing a gun at the persons head and trying to kill them, you are just neutralizing the threat. Shouldn't the government reward the person for choosing a dog over a gun? It just doesn't make sense that a person tresspassing is illegal but you can't do anything to stop it either.

Well, its a tough and annoying situation. Let's face it, anyone can sue over anything. The problem is in the court system. What can be common sense to us is perpetual to them. Was their no trespassing signs, beware of dog, owners ever been in violation with said dog, blah, blah. That doesn't mean the courts will grant the guy anything, but it is a hassle for the home owner. All citizen dog bites are subject to quarantine. No surprise there.

Ashley Campbell

· #14 · Sep 3, 2010

Jeff Threadgill said:
Well, its a tough and annoying situation. Let's face it, anyone can sue over anything. The problem is in the court system. What can be common sense to us is perpetual to them. Was their no trespassing signs, beware of dog, owners ever been in violation with said dog, blah, blah. That doesn't mean the courts will grant the guy anything, but it is a hassle for the home owner. All citizen dog bites are subject to quarantine. No surprise there.

There's a lot that we don't know about that part. Someone jumping my fence is on my property, therefore trespassing, but unless they are armed, they aren't a "threat" - just a trespasser. I imagine if one of the dogs nails him, I'm in trouble, whether he's on my fence or not.

Kind of like if someone jumps my fence and I shoot him, it's not really a righteous shoot unless he has a weapon and I can get my ass in a sling for this.
If he jumps my fence and walks through my open back door, and I kill him - it's beyond trespassing and more in the line of burglary, home invasion, etc.

Kind of depends on where you are too. Places like AZ and Colorado are much more "weapon friendly" than say California or New York.

But as for the poll, a dog isn't necessarily a weapon out right, but that doesn't mean it can't be used as one.

Chad Brezina

· #15 · Sep 3, 2010

ok, so you tell the person to get out of your yard or you will release the dog, and if they get out, Great. If they refuse or pose a threat and then you release the dog is a better way to go about it. I live in AZ and I think if someone is on your property, tresspassing, you are eligible to shoot them (or release your dog). That's just what I've heard, not sure on the truth of that.

Ashley Campbell

· #16 · Sep 3, 2010

Chad Brezina said:
ok, so you tell the person to get out of your yard or you will release the dog, and if they get out, Great. If they refuse or pose a threat and then you release the dog is a better way to go about it. I live in AZ and I think if someone is on your property, tresspassing, you are eligible to shoot them (or release your dog). That's just what I've heard, not sure on the truth of that.

I'm also from Arizona. We are just stationed in Colorado for now.

A. A person is justified in threatening or using both physical force and deadly physical force against another if and to the extent the person reasonably believes that physical force or deadly physical force is immediately necessary to prevent the other's commission of arson of an occupied structure under section 13-1704, burglary in the second or first degree under section 13-1507 or 13-1508, kidnapping under section 13-1304, manslaughter under section 13-1103, second or first degree murder under section 13-1104 or 13-1105, sexual conduct with a minor under section 13-1405, sexual assault under section 13-1406, child molestation under section 13-1410, armed robbery under section 13-1904, or aggravated assault under section 13-1204, subsection A, paragraphs 1 and 2.
B. There is no duty to retreat before threatening or using PHYSICAL FORCE OR deadly physical force justified by subsection A of this section.
C. A person is presumed to be acting reasonably for the purposes of this section if he THE PERSON is acting to prevent the commission of any of the offenses listed in subsection A of this section.
D. THIS SECTION IS NOT LIMITED TO THE USE OR THREATENED USE OF PHYSICAL OR DEADLY PHYSICAL FORCE IN A PERSON'S HOME, RESIDENCE, PLACE OF BUSINESS, LAND THE PERSON OWNS OR LEASES, CONVEYANCE OF ANY KIND, OR ANY OTHER PLACE IN THIS STATE WHERE A PERSON HAS A RIGHT TO BE.
Sec. 4. Title 13, chapter 4, Arizona Revised Statutes, is amended by adding sections 13-418, 13-419 and 13-420, to read:
13-418. Justification; use of force in defense of residential structure or occupied vehicles; definition
A. NOTWITHSTANDING ANY OTHER PROVISION OF THIS CHAPTER, A PERSON IS JUSTIFIED IN THREATENING TO USE OR USING PHYSICAL FORCE OR DEADLY PHYSICAL FORCE AGAINST ANOTHER PERSON IF THE PERSON REASONABLY BELIEVES HIMSELF OR ANOTHER PERSON TO BE IN IMMINENT PERIL OF DEATH OR SERIOUS PHYSICAL INJURY AND THE PERSON AGAINST WHOM THE PHYSICAL FORCE OR DEADLY PHYSICAL FORCE IS THREATENED OR USED WAS IN THE PROCESS OF UNLAWFULLY OR FORCEFULLY ENTERING, OR HAD UNLAWFULLY OR FORCEFULLY ENTERED, A RESIDENTIAL STRUCTURE OR OCCUPIED VEHICLE, OR HAD REMOVED OR WAS ATTEMPTING TO REMOVE ANOTHER PERSON AGAINST THE OTHER PERSON'S WILL FROM THE RESIDENTIAL STRUCTURE OR OCCUPIED VEHICLE.
B. A PERSON HAS NO DUTY TO RETREAT BEFORE THREATENING OR USING PHYSICAL FORCE OR DEADLY PHYSICAL FORCE PURSUANT TO THIS SECTION.

http://www.azleg.gov/FormatDocument.asp?inDoc=/legtext/47leg/2r/laws/0199.htm

Going by that, you cannot legally shoot someone who is only trespassing - they have to be committing a crime to use force. Trespassing is not the kind of "crime" that justifies it - more in the way of felonies.

Even the part I bolded, I would be super inclined to not be forced to shoot someone if it can be avoided - lots of paperwork involved in that.
So, long story short. If I had a trespasser in my yard back home that I told to leave, and they didn't, but they were posing no other threat to me than just being a pain in my ass...I'm going to call the cops and stay inside with the gun/dog. I would NOT go out and threaten them because that leaves me open to BS and if you threaten someone, you should be willing to follow through with it.

The above quote is for educational purpose only though, if you want to know the exact terms, I'd contact an attorney.

Sorry to derail your thread but I doubt you're going to get too many people owning up to their dog biting someone anyway.

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Jeff Threadgill

· #17 · Sep 3, 2010

Ashley that is spot on. No matter what "weapon" you have, if you are not in immediate harm then you subject yourself to possible legal problems.

Like Ashley said, always call the cops before making a decision that could hurt you in the long run.

Remember shoot the perp, then drag him in the house.

Some years ago, they're was a guy who broke into a garage. He got trapped, owners were on vacation. The guy almost died from lack of food/water. The guy sued, and the court heard his case. You guys remember this story? I can't Remember all the details.

Jerry Cudahy

Discussion Starter · #18 · Sep 3, 2010

So far a majority of people who responded to this poll say .. Weapon.

OK, Then when does the dog cross over to weapon status?

Our intent or dogs ability?

jc

Mike Lauer

· #19 · Sep 3, 2010

any dog has the ability

Don Turnipseed

· #20 · Sep 3, 2010

Can I take it then, that if my dog is not trained to bite, but chews the crap out of someone being physically aggressive with me, the dog isn't a weapon because of the lack of training?

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