Are cats better bred than dogs?

Mike Schoonbrood said:

I'm not a cat person, but I love playing with other peoples kittens/young cats.... the biting n scratching n being a lil tempremental demon.... having a pup like Lÿka reminds me very much of a cat, but sharper teeth, more force in her bite and more tempremental LOL. She plays like a cat, runs around like a cat, moves like a cat, n has lotsa cat-like behaviors. At first I thought they accidentally sent me a brindle cat that swallowed a bird to make the funny bird-like noises she can make, but then it occured to me... my pup is bred to have exagerated natural tendencies, more wild-animal-like qualities that have been bred out of the calmer lower drive pet-like dogs. So the thought occured to me.... finding a dog with the qualities my pup displays is somewhat challenging, it's more prevailant in some breeds, but on the whole, you can't go and get a poodle or an american line GSD that behaves the way she does very easily, if at all, you need to specifically go to a good breeder that aims for these qualities and even then sometimes its hit or miss. But cats on the other hand... it's very easy to find a cat who has very high hunting/prey drives with lots of desire to chase mice, play rough and be very independant hunting creatures with great agility.

If you compare the ease of finding these qualities in a cat vs. a dog, to me it suggests that cats have maintained their natural abilities and drives much better over the generations than dogs have, which would indicate that cats are better bred than dogs.

Does this logic make sense? Is the average cat indeed better bred than the average dog?

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I had these exact same thoughts when I brought my GSD puppy home. I also had a little tiny rescued ferral German barn cat who was about 6 months old when we brought him home. Her prey drive was outta this world!!! I swear to goodness that the reason Achilles had such a high prey drive and took to the sleeve so well was b/c of that cat. She and he chased around my house constantly. She saw him as prey, he saw her as prey. It was a mutual relationship LOL.

Ever since we gave her to my uncle he hasn't been as prey-driven.

There are actually breeds of cat htat have this bred out of them. We were looking at some for my 5 yo dd. They're called Ragdoll cats adn havec next to no prey drive, go limp in your arms when you pick them up, and rarely defend themselves. There are satlellite breeds being established from the Ragdoll, lke the Ragamuffin, and they're very, very popular.

I think the issue here is that the average pet owner wants a docile love bug of a pet, not a prey monster glued to his/her pantsleg all the time.

BTW I looked at your vidoes of Lyka and she is a little alligator!! Congrats.

Mike Russell said:

If cats are so superior, then why can't they do things on command (whether verbal or physcial cues) like dogs can

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I can teach cats to sit, lay down, stay, etc... is that bad?
I've got a cat (and a dog) I've trained in the Pets Ahoy show at Sea World Orlando. You just have to get into a TOTALLY different frame of mind. Cats are selfish beings interested in ONLY what pleases THEM at that moment. :roll:

Stacia Porter said:

Actually, this isn't entirely true. There are many, many, many recognized cat breeds and people do in fact actively breed and select for traits (and show) their cats. Now it is notable that Domestic Short Hair is a certified "breed" for cats while "Heinz 57" isn't sufficient on vet records . And if anyone's interested in uselss kitty knowledg, a purebred kitty from good lines will run you about $700 for pet quality!!!!!

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There are very distinguished breeds of cats, think: Siamese, Himalayan, Exotic Shorthair. These cats are very carefully bred and raised. If you want to compare apples to oranges, cats have actually not been as over-bred and drastically changed in their overall appearance and their ability to function as some canines. True, there is the genetically altered "Munchkin" cat, a dwarf cat, however there is no severely angulated and overall disproportionate cats in the cat show ring besides.
$700 for a purebred kitty is pretty cheap, depending on the breed, I knew someone who bred Egyptian Maus and those kittens ran for $1500-3000!! It's strange to think a top of the line working GSD is the same price as a *^@&$% cat!!! :evil:

Edited to say: P.S.- I own two cats of my own, but these are the Heinz 57 mutt kitties I got from a local rescue.

I know someone who had a ginger maine **** who could do all the same tricks as her dog. This cat did sit, down, stay, speak, roll over, and it retreived. However, I couldn't even train my DSH to keep her claws out of the furniture. She loved water, so the spray bottle had no effect, she'd just dig your arm if you tried to redirect, and when you made loud noises (by mouth or with a can full of coins) she'd either yawn or stare at you like, "Is that supposed to do something?"

Show quality purebred kitties can be majorly expensive! When I was looking in the $700-800 range that was for a purebred pet quality Ragdoll with spay/neuter contact and limited registration!! Purebred cats are comparable in top of the line GSD's (and some are even more costly then your average GSD). I really couldn't fathom paying that much for a Mau. Then again I can't fathom paying that much for a Chinese Crested dog, either...

I really do want that darn Ragdoll, but right now I think Achilles would just eat it. A cat that runs but won't defend itself? That'd just make his millenium...

I don't see why we're even comparing cats to dogs. Cats are a totally different carnivore. They're solitary hunters for the most part, and while they have some rank structure among themselves (lions, tigers, etc.) it's not comparable to a pack of wolves.

I guess I must be weirder than I thought; I only have one cat that won't come when called. My cats' "come" is much more reliable than my small dog's . How they survive in the wild depends on a lot of factors. Of course, they're lower on the food chain than, say, a coyote, but there are plenty who live long lives all on their own.

Kind of a sidenote pertaining to feral cats-There was a study done on cats and reproduction; one group was fed raw and one was fed cat food. Within 4 generations, the group fed cat food was unable to reproduce. So, it's absolutely true that the cats out on their own, hunting the food that nature intended them to eat, fare better healthwise than the goofy cats we're breeding for looks and ridiculous traits. I think this definitely has an impact on the preception that cats are consistently "drivier" than some dogs.

I think it's safe to say most of us are much more likely to have a second generation feral cat than a second generation wild dog. Of my own cats, my female was a stray the first 5 or so years of her life. She disappeared for 1.5mos one time and came back the perfect weight, gorgeous coat, healthy ears; she left a little pudgy, slightly greasy coat, and w/a terrible ear infection. She'd been eating rabbits living under a shed. The family thanked her profusely for helping them grow petunias :wink: . My males were both strays found as tiny kittens. They are a little more affectionate and come when I call them, but still like to go on killing sprees :twisted: .

Anyway, sorry to ramble, but I think if we keep breeding cats the way we do for show, it won't be much longer until we have the same problems we do with dogs now.

I'm not comparing cats to dogs, I'm comparing the quality of breeding in regards to maintaining natural instincts and drives. It takes effort to find a dog that can do things well that a dog should naturally be able to do, but you can walk into any alley n pick up a cat who'll more than likely do what nature intended for them to do.

Maybe it's a stupid topic, or maybe people just don't get what I meant. Heck I could be talking about Mice or Rabbits vs. dogs... does the average rabbit do what nature intended? Or are they as useless as the average mutt when it comes to fending for themselves? My GSD won't touch raw chicken, he'd die if he had to catch his own food in the wild, but cats seem to fend for themselves pretty well, as do all the bunnies that hop around my yard. I'm just suggesting that maybe some of our human intervention in the breeding of animals has maybe weakened entire species due to carelessness or striving for traits that go against nature. Mountain goats that can't climb mountains fall to their death, so surefootedness is naturally selected as a breeding trait.

Mike Schoonbrood said:

I'm not comparing cats to dogs, I'm comparing the quality of breeding in regards to maintaining natural instincts and drives. It takes effort to find a dog that can do things well that a dog should naturally be able to do, but you can walk into any alley n pick up a cat who'll more than likely do what nature intended for them to do.

Maybe it's a stupid topic, or maybe people just don't get what I meant. Heck I could be talking about Mice or Rabbits vs. dogs... does the average rabbit do what nature intended? Or are they as useless as the average mutt when it comes to fending for themselves? My GSD won't touch raw chicken, he'd die if he had to catch his own food in the wild, but cats seem to fend for themselves pretty well, as do all the bunnies that hop around my yard. I'm just suggesting that maybe some of our human intervention in the breeding of animals has maybe weakened entire species due to carelessness or striving for traits that go against nature. Mountain goats that can't climb mountains fall to their death, so surefootedness is naturally selected as a breeding trait.

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I get on this kick when I start thinking about the dog breeds that *require* Cesarean births due their human-selected face shapes (bull breeds, pugs). It floors me that we have taken teh dog so far beyond its natural form that it can't even be BORN properly...

I think the issue is one of public fear. People have bred out the natural huting abilities of most breeds of dog (not all, mind you) from the simple fear that one day Fido would be standing over them ready to eat their faces off. No one is quite as afraid of Tommy Kitty in the ally as they are of the 75 lb GSD (nor are they afraid, apparently, of teh smaller breeds). In fact, I had a tantrum about this very thing the other day on another board b/c an owner posted about a Bichon with aggressive tendencies that a rescue asked her to take and she said she just couldn't "see" how a Bichon could be aggressive, and then added that her Bichon (I think it's a Bichon, might be another similiar breed) bites her when she tries to move her bed. No one thinks much of that...unless I replace "bichon" with "pit bull." THen it's a problem. Adn we've all seen that America's Funniest Home Videos segment where the poodle (or some other small dog) won't let hte husband near the wife -- that's funny right? What if I replaced that poodle with a malinois? No one would laugh...

Okay, so I've just taken a really long time to say that I think the reason most dogs are bred to be docile has to do with people being afraid that if they're not they wont' be able to conrol them. Cats dont' pose that sort of hazard to humanity. Also, dogs are good for work and as such human naturally selected for those canines who showed the most willingness to co-exist with humans...perhaps those were the animals also least likely to fend for themselves in teh wild?

Bob, gotta love terriers. I grew up with dachshunds and I swear they're meaner than shepherds...