AKC stance on docking, etc.

I crossposted this to some other (pet) groups I belong to, with your logic, Sarah, and pushed them to contact their representatives to vote FOR the bill instead of against it, as the AKC would like everyone to do.

"Natural" dobies are adorable! Here are a couple from our SchH club, and a rottie, too:

Woody Taylor said:

Although...tail docking is another thing altogether, right? Doesn't that cause pain?

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Yes, the actual procedure performed on day-old pups is extremely painful. Here is how it's done:
The puppies are taken from Mom and far enough away so she doesn't hear their screams. In some practices they take them into the surgical room, but most just use the available counter space. Now, there are two methods vets commonly use for docking the tail. The first is to snap the spinal column at the correct docking location, then cut out the bone, and connect the tissues together. Second way is to simply cut the tail straight through (leaving a teeny amount of tissue) and then close the end. Unless the litter owner requests, no local is given, and no pain relievers. Vets will say to the litter owner "they don't feel it because their nerves aren't developed enough yet" but that is a blatent lie. It has been proven that their nerves are developed enough to FEEL the pain and agony of having their tail cut off, however the response is slower. The puppies will stop screaming and then they're taken whimpering and softly crying in pain (they've worn themselves out by this point) back to the litter owner, and the vet usually will proudly say "see, they're all right".
Ear cropping, though not MY cup of tea, is realatively painless if performed correctly. The dog more than likely doesn't experience any more pain than we do when getting ears peirced.

Woody Taylor said:

Are there any dockings done anymore for utility?

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I have seen quite a few GSDs and Mals with their tails docked for PSD work and Border Patrol work. I think it's a good thing in this case (and these dockings are done under anesthesia) because it does limit sensitive areas that a criminal can grab/yank.

Bob Scott said:

Researchers ar now finding that spay/nueter has many down sides to it, such as a higher rate of bone cancer.

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Very true, and early spays (less than 6 months old) are also to blame for older female dogs having urinary incontenance, and in some males bowel incontenance. Of course, vets push for it saying intact male dogs are at risk for developing testicular and prostate cancer, and intact females are at risk for uterine, ovarian & mammary tumors. I guess it's a case of "Damned if you do, Damned if you dont!"

Now lets talk about circumcision on an infant. No let's don't. Lets talk about breast enhancement, no let's don't. Let's talk about face lifts or any other thing that humans do to humans. NO LET'S DON'T. Lets talk about cutting tails and ears off dogs which we do because some of us like the way it looks. Let's talk about cutting off a dogs parts to keep the amount of pups down. I want go there. Let's talk about anyother thing that we are going to allow the government to TELL us what to do and if we don't they will fine us and or send us to jail. Allow this law to pass and then expect anything else. You know who's fault it will be when they start taking our freedoms away? The next thing the government will do is stop all bite dog competition. Do we want that, not me. Give the government an inch and they will take it all. This law is stupid. It's coming from bleeding hearts that have no clue. If anyone likes the way a dog comes into this world and that's the way you want it to look that's fine with me. If I want to change mine by cutting tails and ears, leave me the H*%^%& alone
This is part of my freedom in this country and I dare you to try and take it or anyother freedom from me without a fight.

Jerry Lyda said:

Now lets talk about circumcision on an infant. No let's don't. Lets talk about breast enhancement, no let's don't. Let's talk about face lifts or any other thing that humans do to humans. NO LET'S DON'T. Lets talk about cutting tails and ears off dogs which we do because some of us like the way it looks. Let's talk about cutting off a dogs parts to keep the amount of pups down. I want go there. Let's talk about anyother thing that we are going to allow the government to TELL us what to do and if we don't they will fine us and or send us to jail. Allow this law to pass and then expect anything else. You know who's fault it will be when they start taking our freedoms away? The next thing the government will do is stop all bite dog competition. Do we want that, not me. Give the government an inch and they will take it all. This law is stupid. It's coming from bleeding hearts that have no clue. If anyone likes the way a dog comes into this world and that's the way you want it to look that's fine with me. If I want to change mine by cutting tails and ears, leave me the H*%^%& alone
This is part of my freedom in this country and I dare you to try and take it or anyother freedom from me without a fight.

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ah, the old slippery slope argument. the difference between the selective surgeries you described for humans and dogs? in the case of the human, the subject to be altered made the choice. and what happens if it goes wrong? they sue. liposuction is the classic example. we've all seen the oprah horror stories. there is a risk. people should know that going in and if they still make the choice, any possible side effects should be viewed as "oh well, you made your choice". but what happens when an ear crop goes bad? what recourse does the dog have for a surgery that they didn't choose? NONE. they are problems that can occur. when i was a child, the neighbors across the street got a boxer and when they had it's ears cropped problems arose from the surgery. it does happen and for what? so the dog looks pretty to the owner? sorry. i'm not buying it. now if there is some legitimate reason for the surgery such as the dog is going to be worked in a way that the surgery makes it easier for them to work (such as the tail cropping for the terrier to be pulled from a hole or something similar), then i can see that. but ONLY for cosmetic reasons? it's unnecessary cruelty IMO.

i'm just thinking out loud here. i'm no tree hugger by any stretch, but i think a line should be drawn. do i think the gov't should dictate where this line should be drawn? probably not, but maybe so....

So when I pinched those nasty looking tails off Rott pups, I was cruel and unusual?? Just like I so vividly remember my foreskin being cut off. Over thinking this stuff is foolish. I don't remember pups being that pissed off, and I don't remember it at all.

It is a dog. I really haven't seen any complete misery from them missing a tail, or holding it against me for doing so.

This is the same discussion as culling. Do you let your junk puppies go out and possibly breed? When linebreeding, typically to see what recessives you are going to be up against, you inbreed, father/daughter or mother /son. Half the litter is gonna be trash. They are scrap so that you can see the recessives and figure out whether these dogs are truely worth line breeding on.

It is a dog. Hundreds of thousands are killed every year for no reason other than they were born. When you start thinking of them as anything but, it is the downfall of the breeds. Crop their ears, and maybe they will stay in the home, dock the tail, it is not the big deal you are SOOOOOOOO making it. I cannot believe how much crap info is out there. I have had pups that I docked be asleep, or busy feeding, seconds after I did it. How many tails have YOU docked???