I'll be the first to admit that a Dobe with natural ears is not the most regal animal you'd ever see...that's the funny part about all of this to me. IMO, it boils down to, in a lot of cases, what people thinks makes an animal looks appealing and what they perceive the animal does/does not miss.Bob Scott said:I really don't understand the anti docking/cropping folks. These are some of the same people that push for spay/nueter. Tell me which is more invasive? A tail/ear or nuts/uterus? Given a choice, I don't think having the tips of my ears cut off is all that scary. I never was real pretty anyway. On the other hand 8-[ .
The Presa pup I'm training just had her ears done last Thursday. She has shown absolutely NO signs of missing them or feeling pain.
I might add that two of my three dogs are spayed/nuetered. I've read to much against it to ever do again.
Sorry, but a Dobe with natural ears and tail looks like a B&T coonhound with an ear crop. JMHO! :wink:
I still maintain spay/neuter is a different deal. My opinion. That is not a cosmetic procedure...tail and ear docking are...even if spay/neuter is done for "convenience" there are downstream issues that are minimized as a result of it.Bob Scott said:Yes. crop/dock is all about visual perception just as spay/neuter is all about convience for the owner. I know! Both generalizations, but more the norm then not.
You have an ulterior motive here, Bob, I bet you just like docking your terriers and can't stand all these generalizations. :twisted:Bob Scott said:Yes. crop/dock is all about visual perception just as spay/neuter is all about convience for the owner. I know! Both generalizations, but more the norm then not.
Yes, the actual procedure performed on day-old pups is extremely painful. Here is how it's done:Woody Taylor said:Although...tail docking is another thing altogether, right? Doesn't that cause pain?
I have seen quite a few GSDs and Mals with their tails docked for PSD work and Border Patrol work. I think it's a good thing in this case (and these dockings are done under anesthesia) because it does limit sensitive areas that a criminal can grab/yank.Woody Taylor said:Are there any dockings done anymore for utility?
Very true, and early spays (less than 6 months old) are also to blame for older female dogs having urinary incontenance, and in some males bowel incontenance. Of course, vets push for it saying intact male dogs are at risk for developing testicular and prostate cancer, and intact females are at risk for uterine, ovarian & mammary tumors. I guess it's a case of "Damned if you do, Damned if you dont!"Bob Scott said:Researchers ar now finding that spay/nueter has many down sides to it, such as a higher rate of bone cancer.
Absolutely! I wouldn't go to a vet that didn't. That's still a big problem with a lot of the hardcore pit folks. :evil:Woody Taylor said:Heh. This is a good topic.
Jerry and Bob, what about obligating vets to use anesthetic during the procedures?
Still a problem with a lot of cheap-ass folks. My buddy's family raised Rotts...backyard breeders of the idiot kind in OK...it was pretty brutal as he described it. Not a lot of margin to play with on a little of pups you sell for $50 a piece.Bob Scott said:
ah, the old slippery slope argument. the difference between the selective surgeries you described for humans and dogs? in the case of the human, the subject to be altered made the choice. and what happens if it goes wrong? they sue. liposuction is the classic example. we've all seen the oprah horror stories. there is a risk. people should know that going in and if they still make the choice, any possible side effects should be viewed as "oh well, you made your choice". but what happens when an ear crop goes bad? what recourse does the dog have for a surgery that they didn't choose? NONE. they are problems that can occur. when i was a child, the neighbors across the street got a boxer and when they had it's ears cropped problems arose from the surgery. it does happen and for what? so the dog looks pretty to the owner? sorry. i'm not buying it. now if there is some legitimate reason for the surgery such as the dog is going to be worked in a way that the surgery makes it easier for them to work (such as the tail cropping for the terrier to be pulled from a hole or something similar), then i can see that. but ONLY for cosmetic reasons? it's unnecessary cruelty IMO.Jerry Lyda said:Now lets talk about circumcision on an infant. No let's don't. Lets talk about breast enhancement, no let's don't. Let's talk about face lifts or any other thing that humans do to humans. NO LET'S DON'T. Lets talk about cutting tails and ears off dogs which we do because some of us like the way it looks. Let's talk about cutting off a dogs parts to keep the amount of pups down. I want go there. Let's talk about anyother thing that we are going to allow the government to TELL us what to do and if we don't they will fine us and or send us to jail. Allow this law to pass and then expect anything else. You know who's fault it will be when they start taking our freedoms away? The next thing the government will do is stop all bite dog competition. Do we want that, not me. Give the government an inch and they will take it all. This law is stupid. It's coming from bleeding hearts that have no clue. If anyone likes the way a dog comes into this world and that's the way you want it to look that's fine with me. If I want to change mine by cutting tails and ears, leave me the H*%^%& alone
This is part of my freedom in this country and I dare you to try and take it or anyother freedom from me without a fight.