[Bob Scott]

Stacia, Hang in there girl!
It was just this Janurary when I found out Thunder was Moderate HD. That takes him out of the breeding pool, but that was nevere a concern for me. I worried for days over it till Connie gave me a pile of sites to better understand whats going on. so many people have told me about dogs that were so bad the vet told them to put the dogs down, yet the dogs never showed signs of problems. Other dogs have very little problems on film, yet have to be put down because they can't handle it. Every dog is different. My own guy shows absolutely no problems, so I'm going to follow the advice on the sites Connie gave me and not slow up what I'm doing.
If, in later years, problems arize, I'll deal with that then.

 

[Woody Taylor]

I had a pretty miserable scare with it when this forum first started up. I know you probably covered all the bases, but did you have any second/third opinions? Annie's diagnosis went from "moderate HD" with the primary vet to "nothing to worry about" with the surgeon (who just happened to stop by that clinic that day, luckily) to "nothing really there except clinically silent pano" when the U of MN radiologist reviewed it. I'm not out of the woods yet, but...

In any case, I don't know if you're in a place where you can send them in for evaluation by a vet school radiologist. Maybe others here on the forum have additional resources. I'd want a second look on something this drastic.

 

[Connie Sutherland]

The run around the ring show person will not be doing this. Not enough dedication there. You will see some that have these dogs that will be dedicated enough to title their dogs.

Yeah, heh, I cannot imagine any of the people from " Best in Show" will be showing up in the working ring. Hard to keep the diamond tiara on your head when a nervy GSD is trying to take it off.

See that movie if you haven't, by the way...it's pretty funny, very clean, though the humor will go over kids' heads. But hilarious if you like dogs and like laughing at crazy show people.

I looooooved that movie. :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[Woody Taylor]

I looooooved that movie. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Too many great scenes, I loved the beginning with the yuppies who took their Ch. Weimereiner to the shrink because it had seen them having sex.

 

[Bob Scott]

Having did the show dog scene for a few years, I could introduce you to EVERY single one of the people that were represented in that move. They really are out there! :lol: :lol:

 

[Woody Taylor]

Having did the show dog scene for a few years, I could introduce you to EVERY single one of the people that were represented in that move. They really are out there! :lol: :lol:

I hear that from a lot of folks...that's why I lean toward's Jerry's positions in this thread. I can't imagine any of those people in a bite suit. Maybe that one very mannish lady (Best line of the movie:"...Now there's a happy fella!" :lol: ).

Damn, now I have to go rent that again.

 

[Stacia Porter]

I did NOT count on Jeff learning to copy and paste . My apolgies to this board (and the entire rest of the world).

I saw Andi's xrays myself and there definitely is a problem. You can see on the films that her joint is worn down and not in socket and that there is arthritis in the surrounding hip. My vet's actually really good with this...they suspected it at her first vetting on the 27th b/c she doesn't bear weight on that side. This is the official vet for the sherriff's dept in town (mostly mal's and GSD's -- incidentally our police dept has been getting duped by mal breeders sending HD + dogs their way...vet was telling me that they had about 5 mals in a row sent here from a few different breeders and all were dysplastic. She didn't say where the dogs were purchased from or anything like that, but I say fool me once, shame on you...fool me twice, LOOK ELSWHERE FOR DOGS).

Andi's actually coping really well. She can run, jump, isn't having trouble standing up, and wrestles with Achilles. The vet actually recommended Glycoflex III, not allowing her to lay on hard surfaces, keeping her lean, and letting her set the pace of exercise (in other words, when she's showing signs of fatigue let her rest). She didn't think that putting her down was necessary, or even that it would be for many years to come if we're careful. She actually has a dysplastic bitch herself (she didnt' say what breed).

They did recommend that we go ahead and have Achilles done now (he'll be 14 months on the 29th). She said that while we can't have them OFA'ed, that at least he won't be too old or too far gone for surgeries/treatments like Andi is. She also said that if we wanted to get it all over with she'd give me the number of the local Pennhip certified mobile vet. I highly doubt he's dysplastic, but since it's got to be done anyway I guess there really is no point in waiting. I actually think she misunderstood me at first; there are two vets in the practice and I normally deal with the other one so she didnt 'know Andi's story and assumed that Achilles was of the same lines. UMMMM, no! I told her he's SV papered and she turned red and said she was sorry -- no worries, he still needs to be xrayed.

Okay, thank you all for your help and support. It was hard news to take, even my husband was upset at the news. We were really hoping it was soft tissue damage from slipping on the wet kennel surface in the shelter. At any rate Andi is going to have a comfortable life now...and we're starting work towards a CGC in September with the hopes that she will be a therapy dog!

 

[Connie Sutherland]

....Andi's actually coping really well. She can run, jump, isn't having trouble standing up, and wrestles with Achilles. The vet actually recommended Glycoflex III, not allowing her to lay on hard surfaces, keeping her lean, and letting her set the pace of exercise (in other words, when she's showing signs of fatigue let her rest). .....It was hard news to take, even my husband was upset at the news. We were really hoping it was soft tissue damage from slipping on the wet kennel surface in the shelter. At any rate Andi is going to have a comfortable life now...and we're starting work towards a CGC in September with the hopes that she will be a therapy dog!

It IS a shock.

But now that I've had a lot of experience with senior primary OA (and now early OA secondary to HD), it helps a ton to know that there are ways to manage it. Weight control and anti-inflammation really help to stop further damage, and the glucosamine-type supplements can even replace cartilage (this is still being "proven" and "disproven," but my experiences have been positive).

And, I know I'm becoming a broken record here, but I have 100% good to say about distilled salmon muscle oil every day as an anti-inflammation agent. It's the long-chain Omega 3 EFAs in fish muscle oil.

Some of the best: http://www.crnusa.org/o3group.html

 

[Jeff Oehlsen]

Quote:distilled salmon muscle oil

Fish muscle??????? besides the head there isn't anything else but muscle, and I am quite sure they (the muscles) don't produce oil. Glands produce oil. You're right Jeff (YES YOU CAN COPY THAT FOR FUTURE USE).
You're right Jeff (YES YOU CAN COPY THAT FOR FUTURE USE).
You're right Jeff (YES YOU CAN COPY THAT FOR FUTURE USE).

I think I will use this in all posts. Thank you so much.

 

[Connie Sutherland]

Quote:distilled salmon muscle oil

Fish muscle???????.

LOL!

I was using "muscle" as the place where the oil is found, as opposed to the oil found in the liver (you know, like cod liver oil).

Distilled is to leave behind the heavy metals, like mercury.

But I will definitely save this:
You're right Jeff (YES YOU CAN COPY THAT FOR FUTURE USE)
for possible future use. :lol:

 

[Connie Sutherland]

BTW, not everyone agrees that fish muscle oil is preferable to fish liver oil.

The reasons for my own preference is that liver oil is high in Vitamins A and D, which can be toxic in high doses, and that the liver is a filter for toxins in the body.

 

[Stacia Porter]

Quote:distilled salmon muscle oil

Fish muscle??????? besides the head there isn't anything else but muscle, and I am quite sure they (the muscles) don't produce oil. Glands produce oil. You're right Jeff (YES YOU CAN COPY THAT FOR FUTURE USE).
You're right Jeff (YES YOU CAN COPY THAT FOR FUTURE USE).
You're right Jeff (YES YOU CAN COPY THAT FOR FUTURE USE).

I think I will use this in all posts. Thank you so much.

OMG I've created a monster . Okay, Jeff: we're going to imose a once a day limit on teh use of the following phrase:

You're right Jeff (YES YOU CAN COPY THAT FOR FUTURE USE).

Use it wisely!!!!!!!

Fish muscle oil? I'm willing to try anything to help slow the progression for this baby! And of course come to terms withh the fact that if she's this far gone at only 2 years of age chances are she'll be pretty bad off as a senior. I could be pleasantly surprised, but as an army wife I've learned to prepare for the worst in all situations. Then when crap happens it doesn't seem so darn bad...

 

[Connie Sutherland]

QUOTE: I'm willing to try anything to help slow the progression for this baby! END

The link I gave you to the fish oil companies that voluntarily keep to the standards of the monograph at the site,
http://www.crnusa.org/o3group.html
doesn't include all the good ones, but it's a good quick place to find one if you want.

Liver oil says "liver oil" on it, and muscle oil just says "salmon oil" or some other fish oil; not all of them use the word muscle on the bottle.

If you want some non-commercial info about Omega 3 essential fatty acids, I'll be happy to supply links.

One type of Omega 3 EFAs (short-chain) are generally found in plant-type products (especially flax, but also other oils like canola, olive oil, oily nuts), but a different type (long-chain) of EFAs are found in ocean products.

I buy both flax oil and salmon oil, but some dogs are allergic to flax seeds. I have OA and other degenerative joint stuff myself, secondary to post-polio syndrome, and I use salmon and flax oils for me and the dogs.

Inflammation is involved with arthritis, allergies, even coronary artery disease....and much more. Adding the big anti-inflammation foods to the diet seems to me like a solid first step. JMO!

 

[Stacia Porter]

QUOTE: I'm willing to try anything to help slow the progression for this baby! END

The link I gave you to the fish oil companies that voluntarily keep to the standards of the monograph at the site,
http://www.crnusa.org/o3group.html
doesn't include all the good ones, but it's a good quick place to find one if you want.

Liver oil says "liver oil" on it, and muscle oil just says "salmon oil" or some other fish oil; not all of them use the word muscle on the bottle.

If you want some non-commercial info about Omega 3 essential fatty acids, I'll be happy to supply links.

One type of Omega 3 EFAs (short-chain) are generally found in plant-type products (especially flax, but also other oils like canola, olive oil, oily nuts), but a different type (long-chain) of EFAs are found in ocean products.

I buy both flax oil and salmon oil, but some dogs are allergic to flax seeds. I have OA and other degenerative joint stuff myself, secondary to post-polio syndrome, and I use salmon and flax oils for me and the dogs.

Inflammation is involved with arthritis, allergies, even coronary artery disease....and much more. Adding the big anti-inflammation foods to the diet seems to me like a solid first step. JMO!

Makes sense to me, too, Connie! I have fibromyalgia and I find that diet makes a huge difference in how I feel (unless, of course, it rains...then I'm pretty darn useless lol). Maybe that's why I took the HD news so badly...I know what joint pain feels like and I felt so bad that this poor baby has been allowed to be in pain all of this time (and then had to lay on those cold concrete floors for weeks before being rescued). I can just imagine how muc that hip hurts, yet she still runs, jumps, and smiles. I guess I should take some inspiration from her.

Thanks so much for the links, Connie! You're such a big help.

And sorry, Jerry, for hijacking the thread. Back to discussion about WDS...

I suppose you're all right: the average show person isn't going to get down and dirty with bitework. I just don't want this to turn into one of those, "Well, we're going to lower teh standard to meet hte needs of the AmBred GSD and then tell all of you people who've been doing this a while how you're doing it all wrong." Or worse: find that AmBred breeders are using the lower-standards WDS titles to justify their prices/breeding tactics...

 

[Sarah Hall]

The vet actually recommended Glycoflex III

I love Glycoflex III for joints. Anything with Glucosamine is good for joints. If she starts getting bad with her pain a few years down, try for Rimadyl. Thats an anti-inflammatary/arthritis RX.
We're all here to support you, and if you have any questions you know where to get some good answers!
What did they recommend the salmon oil for? I use if for it's coat enhancing qualities, when needed.

 

[Stacia Porter]

The vet actually recommended Glycoflex III

I love Glycoflex III for joints. Anything with Glucosamine is good for joints. If she starts getting bad with her pain a few years down, try for Rimadyl. Thats an anti-inflammatary/arthritis RX.
We're all here to support you, and if you have any questions you know where to get some good answers!
What did they recommend the salmon oil for? I use if for it's coat enhancing qualities, when needed.

Connie suggested the fish oil. Omega 3 fatty acids are good for joint health. It's always worth a try: at least she'll have a nice coat LOL.

I had a sheltie on Rimadyl for arthritis, but he didn't do well on it. I remember reading something about Rimadyl in a negative light....can't remember what though.

 

[Woody Taylor]

I had a sheltie on Rimadyl for arthritis, but he didn't do well on it. I remember reading something about Rimadyl in a negative light....can't remember what though.

Ed Frawley makes a few references to Rimadyl, here's the one I always remember (CAPS HAVE THAT EFFECT ON ME EVEN MORE THAN regular writing )

Some Vets recommend RIMADYL - I am very much aginst this drug - its a bad drug. It can It can kill dogs. DO NOT GIVE YOUR DOG RIMADYL.

http://www.leerburg.com/hipart.htm

I don't know either way.

 

[Connie Sutherland]

I had a sheltie on Rimadyl for arthritis, but he didn't do well on it. I remember reading something about Rimadyl in a negative light....can't remember what though.

..Ed Frawley makes a few references to Rimadyl, here's the one I always remember (CAPS HAVE THAT EFFECT ON ME EVEN MORE THAN regular writing )....

Some Vets recommend RIMADYL - I am very much aginst this drug - its a bad drug. It can It can kill dogs. DO NOT GIVE YOUR DOG RIMADYL.

I don't know either way.

Here's a site with some cases of Rimadyl gone bad.

http://www.srdogs.com/Pages/rimadylfr.html

It's one of those drugs (IMO) that might be effective sometimes but can also be prescribed too often and overseen too little, with side effects too frequently not made known to the owner beforehand.

 

[Connie Sutherland]

I had a sheltie on Rimadyl for arthritis, but he didn't do well on it. I remember reading something about Rimadyl in a negative light....can't remember what though.

..Ed Frawley makes a few references to Rimadyl, here's the one I always remember (CAPS HAVE THAT EFFECT ON ME EVEN MORE THAN regular writing )....

Some Vets recommend RIMADYL - I am very much aginst this drug - its a bad drug. It can It can kill dogs. DO NOT GIVE YOUR DOG RIMADYL.

I don't know either way.

Here's a site with some cases of Rimadyl gone bad.

http://www.srdogs.com/Pages/rimadylfr.html

It's one of those drugs (IMO) that can be effective but can also be prescribed too often and overseen too little, with side effects too frequently not made known to the owner beforehand.

 

[Connie Sutherland]

I'm posting a link in the "Health and Diet" forum here to a good overview (IMO) of Omega 3 EFAs and their role in decreasing inflammation.