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Training with and without toy
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Old 04-02-2017, 08:45 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Re: Training with and without toy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patty Beck View Post
Here is another video. We seems to struggle a little when the toy is behind him.
Any suggestions or ideas to improve are welcome.

https://youtu.be/3Z7AG_-4Co4
Patty he seems to me in this video to be in a low state of drive. The training looks great! He just seems to be kinda sloughing through ... or is it me? I really want to see him binging a little more ... of course it could be an off day or he could be tired or a myriad of other things. Are you doing any kind of drive building with him?
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Old 04-03-2017, 06:54 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Re: Training with and without toy

Brian, great observation, yes he is not bringing as much to this session. He was tired as we did bitework that morning but.... I could make excuses for him all day.. He should have brought more. I do run in to this more than I like. I think it has to do with 2 things:
- the others not being there
- being in the building where it is always work time
I could have brought the whip out to really build him up but honestly I am getting a little tired of working my ass off to bring him into a proper drive. When does he start doing it on his own? I always keep things fun. I never apply too much pressure. I am carefully with how I play tug so its comfortable and enjoyable for him.
Any advise to get over this hump is very welcome.
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Old 04-03-2017, 07:14 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Re: Training with and without toy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patty Beck View Post
Brian, great observation, yes he is not bringing as much to this session. He was tired as we did bitework that morning but.... I could make excuses for him all day.. He should have brought more. I do run in to this more than I like. I think it has to do with 2 things:
- the others not being there
- being in the building where it is always work time
I could have brought the whip out to really build him up but honestly I am getting a little tired of working my ass off to bring him into a proper drive. When does he start doing it on his own? I always keep things fun. I never apply too much pressure. I am carefully with how I play tug so its comfortable and enjoyable for him.
Any advise to get over this hump is very welcome.


Firstly I want to point out that I see nothing wrong with the dog OR the training other than a lack of drive. I will equate that quickly to the nature of something for you becoming a mundane task that you just kinda do on autopilot without putting any of yourself in to. Now if that dynamic changes to all the sudden you are being challenged a bit then you all the sudden begin to stiffen your back a bit to meet that challenge and the entire energy changes. Im certain you relate to that Patty? Bear with my pitiful attempts to be instructive by using poor examples but its early LOL. Lets take that line of thinking and introduce that into the world between you and your boy!! Challenge him mentally and BAMMMM shit changes all kinda stuff starts happening ... I train bite dogs with the mentality of the dog just needs to engage so we dont so much use stimulus (whips, rattles etc) to get the dog to engage. We try to get into the dogs head to manipulate him at a different level. Your dog looks to have adapted to a lower drive level and remember they are masters of mnipulation and adaptation thats why we choose them. That adaptation can be GREAT and or it can be the pits.

my spiel is ultimately pointing to this quote " I always keep things fun. I never apply too much pressure. I am carefully with how I play tug so its comfortable and enjoyable for him."
what that quote is saying is really this "I always make it easy for him because I dont want to do anything wrong that can mess him up"....the irony is you are messing up doing that because you are not challenging him LOL ....virtually every person does it including myself. That dog needs to be under some pressure and be challenged to bring him out. Id maybe seperate him away from his group at home if thats doable and not give much time to loaf around and do his own thing. When he does come out its bidness and lets get something done. I think you will see a different dog
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Old 04-03-2017, 07:18 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Re: Training with and without toy

The weather is rainy and nasty but if it clears I will make a video of a drive building send out we do that I think will help your boys intensity.
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Old 04-03-2017, 07:22 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Re: Training with and without toy

Thank you Brian! I have spent so much time being careful with ICE so he doesn't shut down again but I think you are right it is time to step up to the plate.
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Old 04-03-2017, 07:23 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Re: Training with and without toy

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Originally Posted by Brian Anderson View Post
The weather is rainy and nasty but if it clears I will make a video of a drive building send out we do that I think will help your boys intensity.
Excellent! Thank you!
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Old 04-03-2017, 07:27 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Re: Training with and without toy

re : "my spiel is ultimately pointing to this quote " I always keep things fun. I never apply too much pressure. I am carefully with how I play tug so its comfortable and enjoyable for him."
what that quote is saying is really this "I always make it easy for him because I dont want to do anything wrong that can mess him up"....the irony is you are messing up doing that because you are not challenging him LOL ....virtually every person does it including myself. That dog needs to be under some pressure and be challenged to bring him out. Id maybe seperate him away from his group at home if thats doable and not give much time to loaf around and do his own thing. When he does come out its bidness and lets get something done. I think you will see a different dog "

this is EXACTLY what i as getting at in my "when do you get serious" thread !
- it was never intended to discuss the values of markers
- i prob started out with a bad example (MWD) and that might have made people think i was only talking about that type of training
- as Brian pointed out 'serious' should mean challenging and raising the bar and is not reserved for "special" types of dogs or specialised training
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Old 04-03-2017, 07:37 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Re: Training with and without toy

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Originally Posted by Patty Beck View Post
Thank you Brian! I have spent so much time being careful with ICE so he doesn't shut down again but I think you are right it is time to step up to the plate.

One of the best things I have found to change the dynamic between a dog and myself as trainer is to put the dog in a position that the majority of time he is spending with me is in the work and then back up. So this kind of alignment in the brain happens which brings more clarity.

When our dogs (some more than others) are allowed to just kind of do their own thing and make most of their own choices you become less valid to them and your value is decreased. Hopefully makes sense!
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Old 04-03-2017, 05:49 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Re: Training with and without toy

Here is how I would "mend" this, although tbh I can't see anything broken. The dog is clearly bored of this game. Does he like just straight up simple retrieves? If so do this:

Ask for behavior (eg. sit)/dog sits/game of tug.
Chuck some easy retrieves..... like maybe 3-5
Ask for a behavior (sit)/dog sits/game of tug.
Blah Blah, rinse and repeat till the dog anticipates the easy retrieve.
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Old 04-03-2017, 05:51 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Re: Training with and without toy

This guy has an interesting take on it, I think, I am finding it hard to get through all the woo:

https://naturaldogtraining.com/blog/why-we-push/
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