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IPO, PSA, French ring?
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Old 12-15-2015, 11:35 PM   #61 (permalink)
Broke the Bark Collar
 
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Re: IPO, PSA, French ring?

I do agree about the flirt pole being good for puppies.

It can get a slow pup started but yes, it can create a false sense of prey if done to long.

I wouldn't use it on a pup that already had great drive.
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Old 12-15-2015, 11:57 PM   #62 (permalink)
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Re: IPO, PSA, French ring?

repeat...
used with a 2yr old gsd who had already many good deep grips on a sleeve
saw that video myself ...schutzhund...prior to IPO
dog was evalled as all defense; ZERO prey
- not a puppy/young dog mindset

bottom line : flirt pole worked very effectively at bringing out a side of the dog that others did not think existed

results : the dog's drives were better balanced, became an easier dog to handle and became a better all around dog .... which equates to an effective tool for me

prey drive in the literal sense is non existent in dogs who do not pursue catch and kill prey
- sleeves are not prey...a helper attached may make it more prey- like, but still not prey
-it's an abstract expression used to define a behavior or temperament
- so i use the term for dogs in the sense that movement stimulates the dog's desire to catch/grip

"prey drive" can be a good behavior to develop and can be developed with a flirt pole for older dogs...in my limited experience
- or pups that might take a few years to fully mature === like the OP has

of course real dog people think prey is almost the same as play and they don't like too much of it
... who cares
- some of our best mwd's have high PREY/PLAY drive ... they are not all defense and fight oriented but they work just fine //LOL//

ymmv, just saying there are no absolutes, restrictions and limits for using tools
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Old 12-16-2015, 12:19 AM   #63 (permalink)
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Re: IPO, PSA, French ring?

i would have liked to see how that Beauceron pup develops and i would like to have seen it worked...intend to do some youtube surfing and see if there are any out there
-- trying to balance drives as it matures would be one of my goals if it was my pup because i like all around dogs
- i would not be the type to over develop the "serious" side and hype it, unless i was going to compete at high levels of a bite sport or train it as a serious PPD
- i'll play with ESP and go out on a limb and say that is not what the OP has in mind either, but he can correct me if my ESP is off track

anyhow ... just wanted to talk flirt poles because i like them and think they are underestimated sometimes.....could care less what others might wanna do because that is entirely their choice //rotflmao//

i evalled a fairly nice dobie a few weeks back and i think she will be my spring fling challenge. will be interesting to see if the dobie stereotype shows up. plus my niece has a dog that is terrorizing their household and i HAVE to spend time with it
- and i found a great assistant who can handle my dog well and loves to train with me and take vids. we are doing a whole set on socializing in public, which is what i love to do
- Life is good !!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 12-16-2015, 12:25 AM   #64 (permalink)
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Re: IPO, PSA, French ring?

i shouldn't assume
HaHaHa....
don't even know if the OP is a he or a she //LOL//
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Old 12-16-2015, 12:52 PM   #65 (permalink)
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Re: IPO, PSA, French ring?

I don't know if I already said it, but he's 6 months old. I was worried about starting late since I know a lot of the times IPO dogs are started with developing drive very young.

I wouldn't say he has 'great' drive, probably 'good' drive. Or good enough that the trainer thinks it can be developed enough to work with.

I don't expect him to be a high caliper IPO dog and I don't really expect to get titles on him, but I want to do something with him that gets us both excited. There are a few breeders who do IPO and other protection sports with Beaucerons, but not too many.

I'm still trying to come to terms with the term "prey" drive as it is used in IPO. My highest PREY drive dog has 0 PLAY drive. She will chase a raccoon for days, but throw a toy and she stares at it blankly.
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