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IPO, PSA, French ring?
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Old 12-03-2015, 08:14 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Re: IPO, PSA, French ring?

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Originally Posted by Jaidee Somero View Post
I figured I would update this. After talking to some Beauceron people and others at the IPO trial I decided that I am not going to train for protection sports at this time. I do not think he has the right drive to be competitive in it and I do not think a Beauceron is a good choice for a beginner because of their tendency to take things too seriously. I would not want to ruin a good dog, since there are no trainers around here familiar with beaucerons in protection sports.
Did they even evaluate the dog in person? Sounds like a whitewash to me. I have a friend who has done both Ring and IPO with his Beaucerons. His female is a nice Ring 2 dog and is quite balanced in its drives. His male which is a brother from the same breeding but a different litter is yes a bit serious. But I'm curious as a lot of the old school IPO people like to have a serious type of dog for that sport. Just sounds a bit weak on their part to pigeonhole your dog as not suitable without checking it out in person. I know how these things go and to evaluate a dog, they actually have to evaluate it .. just saying.
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Old 12-03-2015, 09:58 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Re: IPO, PSA, French ring?

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i'd like to read how your dog was evaluated if you ever have the spare time to fill in the specific details and post it
He was never evaluated, I ended up not bringing him. After talking to people at the trail and seeing their dogs I don't think he would be a great candidate for protection sports. My puppy is medium energy level, medium toy drive, high food drive.
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Old 12-04-2015, 01:51 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Re: IPO, PSA, French ring?

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Originally Posted by Jaidee Somero View Post
He was never evaluated, I ended up not bringing him. After talking to people at the trail and seeing their dogs I don't think he would be a great candidate for protection sports. My puppy is medium energy level, medium toy drive, high food drive.
Sounds to me that your pup has promise. More than a lot of other dogs in the sport. Plus Beaucerons as a general rule mature a lot slower than a Malinois or similar aged GSD. I wouldn't have counted your dog out based on that.
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Old 12-04-2015, 05:54 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Re: IPO, PSA, French ring?

I would not count him out yet either, when he is a little more mature you may find he is a good candidate, at least for you to learn from if not make it to the podium...

I had a national level helper tell me my dog was not capable of SCH (I believe based on this) because he was a serious dog and did not want to play games with the helper....and showed zero interest in his teasing with the rag... shortly after that he performed a great long bite with drive, an out, bark and hold, and rebite with drive and another out. all clean and crisp..and the guy still said the dog didn't have the right drive, I personally think he was scared of the dog...he was not a good candidate for playing bite games with, or for inexperienced or careless helpers, but could have made it I believe...he served his purpose well though and engaged a few people for real when needed...
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Old 12-04-2015, 06:09 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Re: IPO, PSA, French ring?

Thanks for the input. I guess I was under the impression that they needed to be higher energy. He has a stable temperament and usually confronts new situations with confidence.
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Old 12-04-2015, 06:50 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Re: IPO, PSA, French ring?

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Originally Posted by Jaidee Somero View Post
Thanks for the input. I guess I was under the impression that they needed to be higher energy. He has a stable temperament and usually confronts new situations with confidence.
Sounds like a really good place to start. And as Geoff said, Beaucerons mature slower than other breeds.

Not everyone who trains has a superstar dog. Everyone starts somewhere as a handler and there's a huge learning curve - at least there was for me. If you find a club you click with that is interested in working with you and your dog, don't let your doubts about your dog hold you back. He may surprise you.
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Old 12-04-2015, 10:45 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Re: IPO, PSA, French ring?

The high prey driven, excitable dog is somewhat of a recent thing in Schutzhund.

At the same time I think it would take someone that really knows the ropes to train the serious only type dog today.

This was probably more the norm some yrs back.

With the more unusual breeds it would be harder still to find one for work simply because most "rare" breeds are bred for the pet and show venue. JMHO !
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Old 12-05-2015, 10:53 AM   #28 (permalink)
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Re: IPO, PSA, French ring?

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The high prey driven, excitable dog is somewhat of a recent thing in Schutzhund.

At the same time I think it would take someone that really knows the ropes to train the serious only type dog today.

This was probably more the norm some yrs back.
Yeah I have to agree Bob. There has been quite a shift in the last 10-15 years in how IPO has been trained. A lot of the stock available today the whole program can be trained via prey drive. The aggression is kinda painted on like icing on a cake and not really aggression .. but a pink blue hue facsimile.

I trained my current FR3 Malinois all in prey, and all the props of aggression. You know the menacing body attitude of decoys, threat of the stick, stick hits, the gun whatever just means 'game on' for him.

The pressure in Ring 3 is immense and it brings out fight with the attached slow to outs and internal anger even though he was never worked in defense he is in the game to fight, it's a big problem for me as I don't really know how to progress the training of it at that level to clean it up. Oh well if it was easy everyone would do it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Scott
With the more unusual breeds it would be harder still to find one for work simply because most "rare" breeds are bred for the pet and show venue. JMHO !
Beaucerons .. especially Beaucerons bought from France that are bred with members of their National Breed club 'Les Amis du Beauceron' are all temperament tested at their National Elevage http://www.amisdubeauceron.org/calen...e-elevage.html and have a lot more testing done with them to be selected and accepted for breeding. Their temperment testing includes exposure to gunfire etc, any negative or fear based reaction to gunfire and the dog is failed. As well there is always a Ring trial at this event as well, since Ring is still considered a 'breeding test' not a sport in France. They still consider the Beauceron a dog of work there and while people show them the criteria is a lot different than the old women run AKC/CKC et al type of fou fou shave and comb show over here, the judges over there have a lot more input from the traditional work side of things.
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Old 12-08-2015, 05:44 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Re: IPO, PSA, French ring?

Thank you everyone. I decided to have him officially evaluated by the local IPO club coordinator. I'll let you know what she says.
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Old 12-08-2015, 09:10 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Re: IPO, PSA, French ring?

shoot a video of the whole eval

we have MANY experienced IPO members who should be more than happy to provide knowledgeable comments on what they see that could help you make your decisions
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