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IPO, PSA, French ring?
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Old 11-19-2015, 10:45 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Re: IPO, PSA, French ring?

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Originally Posted by Khoi Pham View Post
IMO, IPO is a test of training skill of handler, more of a test of handler and how he can train a dog than test of dog's nerve, if you can take a dog to IPO 3, odds are you are a pretty good trainer in all phases, tracking, ob, bite work. FR goes into the finer points of techniques for both dogs and decoys, testing dog's drive and techniques. PSA is a test of dog's nerve and handling skill and control. I do PSA because I like the challenge of surprised scenarios in the upper level, you don't know what they are going to throw at you to test your dog, so you better trained for everything.
Thank you! IPO is much more common around here. PSA is interesting! I'm not even sure if French Ring would be an option since there doesn't seem to be any clubs near me.
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Old 11-19-2015, 10:50 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Re: IPO, PSA, French ring?

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Originally Posted by Geoff Empey View Post
Watching a trial is fine, but what you really need to do is get to a club. It is the training that makes or breaks you and the dog.



What breed is yours? In reality doing any of these sports require a suitable dog. Even dogs with the common breeds for these sports may or may not be suitable even some in the same litter it is pretty specific.
I am going to talk to the person who runs the club when I am there to see if they think I should join or not. He is a Beauceron. As I stated in my first post, I do not know if he even has a suitable temperament for protection sports. Before I tried to do anything with him I would have him temperament tested by a professional. I did not get him specifically for protection sports so he may not have enough drive for it.


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Originally Posted by Geoff Empey View Post
I start environmental exposure in the whelping box. As well as shaping exercises as young as 7 weeks. The longer you wait the more harder it becomes to follow the path to success. Age appropriate work, of course.



Nothing is without risk. That's the name of the game in any of the contact high end dog sports, if you are really worried take up a non contact - non jump sport like Rally-O or scentwork.
Thanks, once we have a more solid obedience foundation I would like to do Rally as well.
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Old 11-19-2015, 10:52 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Re: IPO, PSA, French ring?

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Originally Posted by Kadi Thingvall View Post
You've gotten good links/info already, so I just want to comment on the above. If you plan to do both herding and protection sports, get a solid foundation in the protection sport(s) BEFORE you start herding. Not only will the control work you do in protection sports help you later in herding, but the way many people start a herding dog (using a stick as a control/discipline device) can cause issues for the protection sports if you start those second. I've done both with a LOT of dogs, and never had a problem if I went from protection to herding, but I have had problems going the other direction.
Can you elaborate more on why the stick used in herding would cause issues in protection sports? Thanks!
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Old 11-19-2015, 03:16 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Re: IPO, PSA, French ring?

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Originally Posted by Jaidee Somero View Post
Can you elaborate more on why the stick used in herding would cause issues in protection sports? Thanks!
just a guess here, but doesnt seem smart to have some herding trainer using a stick to control your future bitesport dog who will be facing helpers and decoys with sticks that will be used to represent pressure and threats from "the bad guys"

I assume one would prefer the dog to ignore or become stimulated to bite during use of the stick in bite sports, not to listen to and be controlled by the person with the stick, as in herding...
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Old 11-19-2015, 06:24 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Re: IPO, PSA, French ring?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaidee Somero View Post
I am going to talk to the person who runs the club when I am there to see if they think I should join or not. He is a Beauceron. As I stated in my first post, I do not know if he even has a suitable temperament for protection sports. Before I tried to do anything with him I would have him temperament tested by a professional. I did not get him specifically for protection sports so he may not have enough drive for it.
Yeah I saw he was a Beauceron after I posted but the site wouldn't let me edit it. Beaucerons can do the sport. I have a few friends that have done Ring and IPO with theirs. You are correct not all can succeed in the hard sports, hopefully when you get the dogs temperament tested that the evaluator doesn't look at him like a GSD or a Malinois as they have a lot more quirks such as being slower to mature and more calm than a atypical herder.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaidee Somero
Thanks, once we have a more solid obedience foundation I would like to do Rally as well.
Yeah it's fun, but an old lady sport! LOL! I did it one time and with those silly arrows and stuff I did it all messed up just to make all the old ladies mad at me!

The OB between Rally and any of those 3 sports you mentioned is more than a huge leap. It's like going to the moon!
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Old 11-19-2015, 11:36 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Re: IPO, PSA, French ring?

The shepherd's staff can look like a threat to some bite trained dogs.

The first time my herding instructor put the staff out to block my SchIII dog he stopped, stiffened up with tail and ears high and just glared at her.

I tried with a plastic leaf rake and he tried to grab it out of my hands.

He eventually learned it wasn't a threat because he was never hit with it and it was never used by lifting it over our heads as in a Schutzhund stick attack.

Myself and my herding trainer were the only two that could get away with it though.

He actually learned to really like her because she was the source of great fun.
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Old 12-02-2015, 01:24 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Re: IPO, PSA, French ring?

I figured I would update this. After talking to some Beauceron people and others at the IPO trial I decided that I am not going to train for protection sports at this time. I do not think he has the right drive to be competitive in it and I do not think a Beauceron is a good choice for a beginner because of their tendency to take things too seriously. I would not want to ruin a good dog, since there are no trainers around here familiar with beaucerons in protection sports.

He just graduated basic Ob and we are going to be going to a competitive obedience seminar in January and hopefully start up Rally classes soon!

I appreciate everyone's advice and input!
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Old 12-02-2015, 09:03 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Re: IPO, PSA, French ring?

i'd like to read how your dog was evaluated if you ever have the spare time to fill in the specific details and post it
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Old 12-02-2015, 10:13 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Re: IPO, PSA, French ring?

by the way, i was referring to this : "Before I tried to do anything with him I would have him temperament tested by a professional. I did not get him specifically for protection sports so he may not have enough drive for it."

i have a rather "odd ball" dog breed too, and if i listened to what other people said i could and couldn't do with it without actually evaluating my dog, he never would have been the dog he is today
....just saying

but regardless .... good luck with whatever you decide to do with him
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Old 12-02-2015, 10:48 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Re: IPO, PSA, French ring?

Jaidee, Kudos for putting in the effort to find out what is best for you and your dog.

To many "trainers" will pass judgement on a dog's abilities or lack there of based on breed alone.

I'm with Rick.
I'd love to here about your dog's eval.
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