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Place behavior
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Old 04-03-2017, 11:50 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Re: Place behavior

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Originally Posted by Khoi Pham View Post
Food is for teaching an exercise, because most dogs have lower drive for it than a toy, their head is clearer to learn a new exercise, once you dog understand the exercise then you can switch to a toy as a reward and train in drive, training in drive will have more intensity in the exercise than the food as a reward. But you might want to take a step back and just teach place first and not making him stay there, your verbal marker seems to be "ok yes", should be just one word or use a clicker so it will eliminate all of the variable, as soon as he put foot on the platform, mark and throw the food away so he will have to leave the platform and eat it, then immediately point to the platform again and start over, this simulate training in drive but with food, once he understand the place command without you having to lure him on it, you can work on time, start out with one second then gradually goes longer and then mix it up, sometime make him wait for one second sometime 5 sometimes 10 sometime one...Pattern training is what kills drive and show less intensity in the work, always keep him guessing. Then once this is good, switch to the toy for the reward and you will see intensity increased.
He does understand being on the platform. What I was trying to accomplish in the video (what I heard in the seminar) was for him to stay on the platform until release (my release word is OK) then as he is moving toward me to throw the food and mark (my mark is yes) then rush back to the platform with him to show him urgency to get back there. Maybe I need to rethink this and just use the toy.
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Old 04-03-2017, 11:59 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Re: Place behavior

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Originally Posted by rick smith View Post
with such a huge selection of toys these days a LOT of dog owners (including working dog owners) have forgotten the importance of verbal and physical praise and it's almost become a lost art and confused with prey drive stimulation
Yes! I have fallen very far into this trap. While ICE and I have a great relationship it absolutely takes a toy to get really strong work. I have been starting the past few months to add more just playing and roughhousing with him without any toys while we are working. Even now, he still kind of acts like he's not sure he really likes it...

On a side note - as you read about my struggles ICE is the first toy motivated dog I have ever had also my first IPO dog.. I have done allot of dogs sports, just agility, AKC OB, rally etc and all my current and prior GSD's were totally trained using food only.
So, I have probably had a staring role in screwing up poor ICE... But I won't give up and he's a pretty happy guy....
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Old 04-03-2017, 12:09 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Re: Place behavior

Patty
if you think the poor boy is screwed up you better just ship him over here now so i can screw him up even more and take the problem off you hands //lol//
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Old 04-03-2017, 12:22 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Re: Place behavior

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Originally Posted by Patty Beck View Post
He does understand being on the platform. What I was trying to accomplish in the video (what I heard in the seminar) was for him to stay on the platform until release (my release word is OK) then as he is moving toward me to throw the food and mark (my mark is yes) then rush back to the platform with him to show him urgency to get back there. Maybe I need to rethink this and just use the toy.
Im teaching exactly that here https://youtu.be/u2qOWVlvQBA

you work in close to start and build distance
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Old 04-03-2017, 01:06 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Re: Place behavior

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Patty
if you think the poor boy is screwed up you better just ship him over here now so i can screw him up even more and take the problem off you hands //lol//

Ha ha! Sorry but no way!! I love my screwed up boy!!! LOL
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Old 04-03-2017, 01:12 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Re: Place behavior

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Im teaching exactly that here https://youtu.be/u2qOWVlvQBA

you work in close to start and build distance

Excellent video! thank you!
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Old 04-03-2017, 10:02 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Re: Place behavior

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Originally Posted by Patty Beck View Post
Even now, he still kind of acts like he's not sure he really likes it...
Patty, what do you think that's about? You mentioned he's a thinking dog, I presume something has to be going on in his head/body language to give you that impression.
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Old 04-04-2017, 07:07 AM   #28 (permalink)
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Re: Place behavior

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Patty, what do you think that's about? You mentioned he's a thinking dog, I presume something has to be going on in his head/body language to give you that impression.
I think it just feels weird to him. When I start to roughhouse with him it seems he kind of avoids it. Sometimes he will jump up and seems to enjoy it a little but mostly he will just get closer and lean on my leg until I offer petting and patting his ribs. I have started to do it more in agility class. That is the one situation he seems to be more open to it. I am hoping that it will transfer to other places. It is very hard to explain - so I hope that gives you some idea.
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Old 04-04-2017, 11:47 AM   #29 (permalink)
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Re: Place behavior

Trust possibly? Does he seem to enjoy agility?
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Old 04-04-2017, 12:34 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Re: Place behavior

maybe somewhat relevant ??

the more i'm around dogs the less i like to hear the word "work".
for me, it's become vague and far too general. or it carries a connotation that really isn't there at all

here's one real world example :
today my assistant trainer stopped by and took my dog out to a very nice open space with a lot of cherry blossoms to do send outs and recalls (averaging about 75 meters)
- i could say she took my dog out and worked him for a couple hours and everyone would get it. and she could say she really loved working him today and i would get it
- but from his POV, i know FOR SURE there was NO work involved at all

meanwhile i was at the house climbing my monster tree trying to cut it back before typhoon season hits and takes out our power lines. THAT was work and i hated it !
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