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Marker training a recall
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Old 12-01-2015, 08:01 PM   #21 (permalink)
Ankle Biter
 
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Cool Re: Marker training a recall

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Scott View Post
Agree but I have no problem letting a pup know not to bite god (me). That may be a simple poke with a finger and a no or just a strong no.

I've never had a problem but then I like a pup that has a bit of grit.

To many yrs with terrier I guess.

Keeping my GSD pups from biting me and creating good house manners had absolutely no adverse affect on their bite training.
Yes, of course. The quote was only in reference to training commands. With a puppy I use a grab with the hand kind of like his/her Mother would to reprimand/correct. I make a bark\growl sound. If you notice puppies interact with their Mother she will correct them much the same way.
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Old 12-01-2015, 11:16 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Re: Marker training a recall

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffrey Eggenberger View Post
Yes, of course. The quote was only in reference to training commands. With a puppy I use a grab with the hand kind of like his/her Mother would to reprimand/correct. I make a bark\growl sound. If you notice puppies interact with their Mother she will correct them much the same way.

I find that muzzle grips on the terriers I had would more then likely bring out the devil in the little bassids.

Other then the Border terriers that is. They can be crushed with to much pressure even as adults.

Scruff my JRT and you'd think you were holding a runaway buzz saw.

As scrappy as they were my Kerrys responded well to the muzzle grip.

My GSDs were much more responsive to the muzzle grip or scruff as pups.
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Old 12-01-2015, 11:34 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Geoff thanks for the suggestions.

Absent going to the point of abuse, I don't see a problem with compulsion- I have simply seen some nice results experimenting with positive marker training when time and situation allows.

As to teaching pups/dogs not to bite handler I think there is a lot of compartmentalization where dogs can be handler sensitive (or made to respect handler) but still excel in aggression/ bite work. That's the reality with my street dog at least
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Old 12-02-2015, 05:58 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Re: Marker training a recall

re : "Agree but I have no problem letting a pup know not to bite god (me). That may be a simple poke with a finger and a no or just a strong no. “

- if only it was this easy

with that said; bear with me a minute…this is not meant to be sarcastic. just reality as i see it with many people i work with, and here’s why

in the past few years since the Cesar show has been aired here i get more and more people who have failed at being god, or even being a ‘pack leader’.
- in short, they said they went thru the same motions but they still can’t control their dog and don’t know why

they have tried the finger bite move, rib poking, done all sorts of "scruffing like momma” and muzzle holding, etc etc

the advice offered above, and most all the advice posted on the WDF is of course common sense and easy to understand
but the problem as i see it is that people really don’t read their dog well and don’t know how much discilpine they need to deliver to the dog to get a proper response from their dog.
- all too often the discipline is less than needed or the timing was off…..or both
- so instead of the dog “getting the memo”, it toughens the dog and conditions the wrong response
- they rinse and repeat … and make it worse…..get frustrated, and eventually look for a trainer

of course no one here has ever had that problem //lol//
but FOR SURE it happens a lot with a WIDE variety of owners

i have NEVER seen a dog that doesn’t require compulsion somewhere along the training process. the hard part is to figure out when to use it and how much to apply. the more stable and balanced the dog, the easier it is to get a satisfactory result. it doesn’t necessarily mean the handler was a good trainer. more like the dog was stable enuff to handle it //LOL//

there was a post awhile back that asked about when you could determine that a dog learned a command and punishment was necessary for non-compliance. nobody said much at that point and the thread kinda died out. too bad, because that, in my opinion, is the whole point of how and when to apply compulsion.

i’m a firm believer that most people either resort to physical compulsion WAY too early in the training process, or they start the whole process with physical compulsion.
- the latter course can be VERY effective in some cases. especially if the dog will need to work through a lot of pressure later in its training. but you need a very stable dog to do this
- as far as starting too early; that’s a no brainer. back up, use more patience and break the behavior into more steps that can be learned conflict free before raising the bar.
- this is also simple to say and easy to agree with in the real world it’s rarely that easy

sorry this has nothing to do with training a recall …. just rambling as usual //LOL//
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Old 12-02-2015, 10:59 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Re: Marker training a recall

I agree with your ramble!

When watching the dog wisperer show it was usually pretty easy to see who was going to succeed and who would go back to the same old same old with their dog.

I think the vast majority of "pet" owners fall into this category regardless of training method.

As to recall training I can only say that ever since one of my first dogs was hit and killed by a car in '56 I've had excellent reliability in recalls no matter the method.

Leadership can come naturally, with learning or some just don't get it and never will.

It's the most important command you can teach a dog IMHO.
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