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Marker training a recall
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Old 11-25-2015, 02:21 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Marker training a recall

In marker training, when is the marker given for the come command? To me the dog's initial change of direction to come back to the handler is the start of the command being properly followed but until the dog hustles back and sits by the handler the whole command is not complete.
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Old 11-25-2015, 06:00 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Re: Marker training a recall

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In marker training, when is the marker given for the come command? To me the dog's initial change of direction to come back to the handler is the start of the command being properly followed but until the dog hustles back and sits by the handler the whole command is not complete.
Both are correct .. Though I use an intermediate mark (keep going mark) for initial change of direction and a terminal mark aka 'jackpot' mark for the end position. In teaching it anyways.
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Old 11-25-2015, 06:15 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Cool Re: Marker training a recall

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Originally Posted by Nick Hrycaj View Post
In marker training, when is the marker given for the come command? To me the dog's initial change of direction to come back to the handler is the start of the command being properly followed but until the dog hustles back and sits by the handler the whole command is not complete.
I would have to say it depends on the dog. Training would start with just moving toward you, and incrementally shaped as you continue to the final sit. You start with a baby step, and shape until you have the whole command. I don't think any command is learned in it's entirety the first go. Most have to be "shaped".
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Old 11-25-2015, 11:12 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Re: Marker training a recall

When teaching the recall with markers I randomly mark and reward ANY time in the process.

When the dog turns or comes off the sit/down/whatever, as the dog is running back, when the dog gets to me.

I want the dog to know that anywhere in the behavior is reward worthy.

I look at it just like heeling.

If you only mark and reward the dog after 50 ft or so then the steps in between loose the value.

Let the dog know that anywhere and any time during the heeling is reward worthy.
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Old 11-26-2015, 11:28 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Re: Marker training a recall

I think it depends on the stage of training, style of training, age of dog, and what methods or tools you are incorporating in conjunction with your "marker" training.
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Old 11-26-2015, 10:42 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Re: Marker training a recall

Agreed!

My comment was strictly based on a simple recall.

If that is solid then it can be adjusted for different venues in dog training.

Formalize it for sport, make it reliable for a street K9, a voice call off, a whistle call off, whatever but there has to be a basic recall in the beginning.

Teaching it as a game with markers and reward in the beginning will set a great foundation and corrections when needed will go a lot smoother.
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Old 11-27-2015, 02:20 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Re: Marker training a recall

The only problem I've found when people are trying to teach it 'marker' only is rushing the reward mark before the dog has fully understood what the mark means. Or sets themselves and the dog up for failure by not controlling the environmental distractions or adjusting for them.

Also utilizing a reward mark from a distance you need to have the reward ready either remotely or making sure 100% that the dog knows what the mark means and that it has more value for the dog than anything else out there, which in theory is a feat in itself with all the random distractions out there.
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Old 11-27-2015, 10:56 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Re: Marker training a recall

re: Geoff's last post
..... dejas voux //lol//

just the other day i started working with an owner on a recall to a front then a guard (between legs) position. dog is highly motivated in non-distraction areas and doing it well

so i showed them how to place a reward at a distance from the dog and raise the bar, rather than the handler always rewarding the dog from hand.
- it's a whole different ballgame for the owner now
- it also pointed out how the owner was mixing their duration markers with release markers and confusing the dog

getting a dog to stay focused with a remotely placed reward in a distraction area is not easy, ..... even if the reward is a (high value) bite

i'm still a firm believer that 'not all marker training is created equal'
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Old 11-27-2015, 11:49 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Re: Marker training a recall

I agree with both of you, in particular Rick's last comment about "not all marker training is created equal".

Marker training is no different then traditional compulsion training in that each and every experienced handler/ trainer will add and subtract what they feel works for them and the individual dog they're working with at the time.

I doubt any one of us other then green beginners will follow anyone's "style" by the book.

After all, without those differences we would have no one to have discussions with.

I'm thankful for those differences.
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Old 11-28-2015, 02:53 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Geoff. I fully fully agree with your stance on distractions and distance.

I have only recently began to dabble with the what seems to me to be the newer mindset of marker training (I.e Ellis) used in the positive realm. That said even compulsion training is a marker right? The word no (or something similar) denotes impending Physical correction if compliance is not gained.

I'm not familiar with back chaining but is the come command a simple example of when that would apply? Teach the sit in front and the turn seperate then bring them together?
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