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What do you think about this comment?
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Old 09-16-2016, 09:57 AM   #1 (permalink)
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What do you think about this comment?

So basically, I was told this today:

Quote:
Uhhhhhh..... no. Malinois are a herding breed. They do not nearly have the prey drive of dogs like greyhounds or beagles or jack russell terriers.
Mals are very high drive dogs, but it's not high prey drive. Generally, as with most herding dogs, it's a very high sensitivity to motion and a high drive to control that motion. This is key for herding dogs because they need to be attentive to how the flock is moving.
High sensitivity to motion can certainly manifest as prey drive. But it can also manifest as ball or toy drive as well. Basically, it's nothing inherent about prey that is really driving most herding dogs. Rather, prey has more interesting movement than a lot of things!
Other dog breeds are seriously prey driven. And by this I mean that the best reward in the entire world is prey and nothing else even comes close. This is why there are terriers that will be working a badger in a hole for hours upon hours until literal exhaustion. The prey is all that matters.
What do you all think? Lol.
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Old 09-16-2016, 10:30 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Re: What do you think about this comment?

I think that is somewhat true, but the breed has become more prey now than before from breeding, because of the use of police work, protection sport work, now the satisfaction is in the bite after the chase.
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Old 09-16-2016, 11:47 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Re: What do you think about this comment?

I agree with Khoi. Its a super, depending upon the dog, truncated aspect of the behavior in the prey sequence. I have a dog who has a prey drive, then I have a dog that is object driven.

VERY DIFFERENT.

Nothing about the object driven dog seems balanced in the prey sequence. In the other dog it is far more complete, I get a wider range of behaviors and capabilities from that dog and in a more universal/natural environment. From the object driven dog the same can be said about a range of behaviors but it is context specific.
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Old 09-16-2016, 01:58 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Re: What do you think about this comment?

Looking at my Malinois - I think the comment is a crock.

He is not interested in things that move, because they move. He chases bunnies and squirrels and other small running things with the intent to capture and kill, and eat, if I'd let him. I'd call that prey drive.

His last encounter with sheep involved me paying my friend for her vet bills. I guess the movement was too stimulating and he had to grab one by the neck to control it.

How is the prey drive of a sighthound the same as the prey drive of a terrier, but different from a Malinois? And high prey drive Beagles? LOL!
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Old 09-16-2016, 02:32 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Re: What do you think about this comment?

I agree it doesn't fit him. Course by your description your Mal does not do what my Dutch does, and as such it's clear by what you said that his prey sequence is more complete. My Dutch is oblivious to live game, she's nearly ran into birds flying right at her. Point out a moving moose in close proximity and she's looking for an object (whatever might be hidden) or what you might have in your hand or pocket. Like I said, very different.
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Old 09-16-2016, 03:23 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Re: What do you think about this comment?

I believe the comment to be interesting.

I am on my first Mali. And it was no easier/harder to train to leave the livestock and ducks/geese/chooks, than any of my GSD or Rotties have been before her. The same desire to chase/bite/tear apart/eat as the others have had. And by 3 months arrival, is fine off leash with them now.

She eats what she catches. And has emptied the house of mice for me during this years infestation. She's not just chasing a moving objects, she is hunting, she's chasing/killing/stomping/eating. ergo: Prey drive?
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Old 09-16-2016, 04:15 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Re: What do you think about this comment?

Quote:
Originally Posted by shelle fenton View Post
I believe the comment to be interesting.

She's not just chasing a moving objects, she is hunting, she's chasing/killing/stomping/eating. ergo: Prey drive?
Yup.

Frankly, I'd prefer to have a dog more like yours or Leslie's. Like I said, I believe it to be somewhat true. In my dog, its fitting and it can be quite useful in the right situation/job. As Khoi pointed out breeding is the great influencer here.

For sport, I like her. She had everything I wanted. As a companion on a hike, not so much. It's been a different experience for sure. Not like anything I've ever experienced before.
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Old 09-16-2016, 05:21 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Re: What do you think about this comment?

I agree with the comment.
Prey isn't just about chasing stuff it's about Hunt really. So trailing and scentwork first, stalk/eye, chase, grab, kill/eat.

The dog types mentioned have the whole sequence and therefore are more prey driven. Even if you just take prey as chasing and biting stuff greyhound/longdogs and terriers are way more driven than Mals.
Drives are also about endurance. Prey drive unlike Defence can be exhausted. You will find it extremely hard to exhaust a terrier or beagles hunting instinct if it is even possible.

As for the herding part of it I disagree but that could be my inexperience. I believe and have been told by all the herding people (farmers) that the dogs are "hunting" the sheep.
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Old 09-16-2016, 06:49 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Re: What do you think about this comment?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Vandart View Post
Drives are also about endurance. Prey drive unlike Defence can be exhausted. You will find it extremely hard to exhaust a terrier or beagles hunting instinct if it is even possible.
I am glad you mentioned that Matt, because I was going to comment about that and figured that it might be something not relatable. With that said, tying back into comments made earlier about breeding, in extremes, I believe it is more difficult to reach the exhaustion threshold in dogs bred for exaggerated aspects of the prey sequence.

However, the discussion excerpt presented wasn't based upon extremes as a basis for statement. It appears much more generalized (Mals) and given that I have examples that fit the argument concerning behavioral aspects of prey drive it's easier for me to agree.

I have no idea if that made any sense.
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Old 09-17-2016, 12:50 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Re: What do you think about this comment?

Having done herding with my SCH III GSD I can say the "hunting is brought out as much as just the chasing of a moving objects.

Initially he had to be encouraged to go after a passive helper with a sleeve on yet the sight of sheep quietly grazing in a pasture would get a rise out of him from the very start.

He had a natural gather yet never tried to grip unless the sheep got stubborn.

I've tried herding with a Kerry Blue and a Norwich terrier.

My Kerry did a good job of containing the sheep but damn near took an ear off one that tried butting him.

He took her to the ground with serious intent.

The Norwich........well... ducks at the time were five dollars a piece and he cost me a quick $15 dollars.

He contained them all into a corner and then snatched three by the neck in a matter of seconds as the tried to break out of the corner.

This was identical to a good ratter in the days of the ratting pits in England.


I believe MOST dog behaviors are the results of instincts developed or removed through breeding.

What the Pointers do is nothing more then a stalk that has been developed into a stalk and hold.

The herding dog is developed from the wild canids working as a team to bring down the deer/whatever.

I've always placed a very high priority on a natural retrieve as being a sign of a dog willing to work with a human just as it would a wolf bringing game back to feed cubs.

It's a team player.

Bottom line, prey or play is all in how the dog is hardwired and what it was developed for.

Potatoes/patatoes...... ..... That just doesn't come out right when you can't hear it does it.
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