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Gotta question
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Old 03-07-2017, 12:02 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Re: Gotta question

re : "I don't know why some people feel entitled to pet every dog they see, but they do and sometimes you have to be very blunt about saying no"
...very true

i live near a fairly big city....LOTS of people, but those kind of people are rare where i live

- people want to pet dogs because many people take their (social) dogs out and both the owner and the dog like that type of outing....so non dog owners are conditioned to think all dogs are out to be petted and played with. that's how i view the non dog owner world

i take lots of different dogs out and it's usually easy to tell people the dog is out for another reason and the dog is not a petting accessory, and when i do they give me and the dog space. end of problem. you gotta be proactive; not reactive

i DO run into some people who won't believe what i tell them and insist they should be able to pet the dog. if i'm with a customer's dog, i leave. if i'm with my dog, i'll let my dog show them by barking in their face and show them. these are usually the macho type guys who think they can make any dog lick em and love em

it's usually off leash kids that are most difficult. both kids and dogs need to learn basic manners in public

nervous or fearful dogs won't take treats in public. if they are forced to, it is handler error for misreading the dog, and in my book it's extremely bad handling

- there are varying degrees a dog will or won't eat in public.....some might start to take a treat but spit it out...that is nerves too.
- with that said, i feed dogs out in public all the time; including whole meals
- for my work, it's been a great way to measure progress WITHOUT interacting with strangers

- i don't want to focus this thread on training using food in public....it could be a whole thread in itself but most people feel very strongly one way or the other and aren't open minded about this topic

- but if you have a dog that will be out in public and don't want it to bark at people that aren't bothering it, you need to find a way to train that basic canine good citizen manner

so i'm also interested if anyone else has any techniques they have used; whether they worked or not //LOL//
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Old 03-07-2017, 12:21 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Re: Gotta question

i didn't think this thread was related to socialising a fearful dog as much as it was just looking for techniques to control unnecessary barking

since barking happens quickly it's not that easy to prevent it from happening unless you know when it's gonna come

having the dog secured but away from the handler, while being able to watch the distractions approach, has been the only way i have been able to work on the problem

trying to boost the dog's confidence to prevent the barking when the dog is WITH the handler, like Khoi was suggesting, can certainly help, but i thought Misty was looking for ways to work on the problem when the dog was NOT with the handler
- the way she described it made me think the dog is fine when it's close to her

or maybe i'm reading her wrong //LOL//
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Old 03-07-2017, 01:11 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Re: Gotta question

i will add this...it might be relevant

when you're out in public with a dog i think it requires some people skills as well as dog skills

i don't have a lot of people skills. i tend to evaluate and judge people quickly when i'm out with a dog. if i consider the person an asshole i will usually be a bigger one

if i think they are polite but just ignorant about dogs, i'll 'try' and be polite and teach them something. i'd like to think if i teach them something they will be less likely to be a problem for someone else with a dog who they will meet later ..... because i also think people learn the wrong stuff about dogs when they meet up with clueless owners
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Old 03-07-2017, 08:27 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Re: Gotta question

I used to do canine security. Guard and dog, me in my uniform, dog on a short leash. People would ask if the dog bites, and I would answer, "Yes, if necessary". Too often it would be followed up with, "Can I pet him?". "No, he's working."

I thought what Misty was asking about was how to handle her dog's reaction (barking) to random strangers' attempts to pet her. My thought is that if the dog works well and does her job safely for the people around her, there is no need to push her into being a social butterfly. My concern would be that focusing on that may take away from the work she is doing well. Lots of good advice here.
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Old 03-07-2017, 11:12 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Re: Gotta question

I look at teaching a dog NOT to bark is more about the dog connecting a correction for barking being relative to a given behavior seems to connect with them.

Example

I used to have an issue with fence fighting. It took catching them in the act and being right there to shake the snot out of both my GSDs.

Thunder figured out that particular area of the fence was off limits so, for him, it took 3-4 more times with a firm verbal correction to associate the whole fence line.

With uber sensitive Trooper he hardly even goes to the fence anymore but he will stand in the middle of the yard and give the occasional "woof" when the neighbor's dogs are out but no more fence fighting.

Both learned that a simple tap on the window means stop barking.

Yes, the sometimes continue but If I show myself at the door when I tap it's over.

I doubt we could ever teach our dogs not to bark at all but then I wouldn't want to.
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Old 03-08-2017, 12:58 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Re: Gotta question

re : "I doubt we could ever teach our dogs not to bark at all but then I wouldn't want to."
- so true...and somewhat irrelevant since no one else in their right mind would want to either //LOL//

but i think we CAN teach them not to bark with a properly prepared plan, persistence, proper timing and patience

it is required for some dogs more than others and of course depends on what the owner wants or cares about. for some a problem; for others it's music to their ears

off the wall, but i've also tried a method i read about that dates back to the WWII scout dog training...cupping and holding the dog's nose....worked fairly well but was only a reactive correction since the dog already had started barking ... but it did work and the dog started pairing the correction with cupping hands
- better than cutting vocal chords

doesn't seem to be a common problem on the WDF so starting to think we're beating the proverbial dead horse

maybe Misty will clarify more exactly what she wants to accomplish or just say Tx and move on
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Old 03-08-2017, 12:14 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Ok, sorry I was away.. Great responses everyone!!

To clarify.. No, I don't need my girl to be a social butterfly, nor would I want her to be.. she is a GSD and wears here breeding well. She is ok at stakeouts, although I need to work with her more so no whining or barking takes place..at all.. But she is pretty good... She would not be good having a random stranger walk up and want to pet her while she is tied... While I don't/wouldn't want that either, I may need her to be OK with that at some point in her life....

The bark usually occurs when she is with me, BUT, on a 30ft line working a trail... This happens when some yoyo sees a dog working and figures "hey, I should just go pet the 80lb (lean but muscled) sable looking GSD who looks like they are working as someone with K9 SAR UNIT plastered all over their shirt is running behind them and yelling "please don't touch her she is working!" " I am not upset at her when she barks, but the last time she did..and it is a singular "back off!" bark, made the person jump into the street...not a good thing...

The other time she may (or may not) do this, is when someone is a bit too forward in the greeting time... She is sniffing and they assume it is ok to pet... She gives a stiff, singular bark.. The way I would translate it is, "Hey buddy! I didn't say you could hug me yet.. Give me a moment to get to know you... man people are forward!" Yes, that is anthropomorphizing, but she can walk calmly through a crowd of people - no barks, no reactions.. If 'properly' introductions are made, there is never a bark.

She is not food motivated, except as her reward for finding people - then she is all about the treats and praise... So she would not just eat if someone offered her food.. This consternates people who want to give her a biscuit or treat (like at Petco or Petsmart, etc), as she usually refuses...

I am not sure if it is insecurity that is driving the bark.. and I definitely wouldn't want to go any further... If it is insecurity..how do I help her overcome it? If it is just her being specific about her introductions (I am very wary in my space... I don't just hug people like some do, so I understand her desire to greet slowly) I don't mind as much...again, as long as it doesn't go further...

hope this helps explain... Open to ideas and suggestions Thanks everyone!
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Old 03-12-2017, 12:45 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Re: Gotta question

Quote:
Originally Posted by rick smith View Post
re : "I don't know why some people feel entitled to pet every dog they see, but they do and sometimes you have to be very blunt about saying no"
...very true

i live near a fairly big city....LOTS of people, but those kind of people are rare where i live

- people want to pet dogs because many people take their (social) dogs out and both the owner and the dog like that type of outing....so non dog owners are conditioned to think all dogs are out to be petted and played with. that's how i view the non dog owner world

i take lots of different dogs out and it's usually easy to tell people the dog is out for another reason and the dog is not a petting accessory, and when i do they give me and the dog space. end of problem. you gotta be proactive; not reactive

i DO run into some people who won't believe what i tell them and insist they should be able to pet the dog. if i'm with a customer's dog, i leave. if i'm with my dog, i'll let my dog show them by barking in their face and show them. these are usually the macho type guys who think they can make any dog lick em and love em

it's usually off leash kids that are most difficult. both kids and dogs need to learn basic manners in public

nervous or fearful dogs won't take treats in public. if they are forced to, it is handler error for misreading the dog, and in my book it's extremely bad handling

- there are varying degrees a dog will or won't eat in public.....some might start to take a treat but spit it out...that is nerves too.
- with that said, i feed dogs out in public all the time; including whole meals
- for my work, it's been a great way to measure progress WITHOUT interacting with strangers

- i don't want to focus this thread on training using food in public....it could be a whole thread in itself but most people feel very strongly one way or the other and aren't open minded about this topic

- but if you have a dog that will be out in public and don't want it to bark at people that aren't bothering it, you need to find a way to train that basic canine good citizen manner

so i'm also interested if anyone else has any techniques they have used; whether they worked or not //LOL//
how ironic...
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Old 03-12-2017, 05:20 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Re: Gotta question

re : "i DO run into some people who won't believe what i tell them and insist they should be able to pet the dog. if i'm with a customer's dog, i leave. if i'm with my dog, i'll let my dog show them by barking in their face and show them. these are usually the macho type guys who think they can make any dog lick em and love em “

---- RE : how ironic…….
don't know exactly what you meant but if it's this :
(ironic : happening in a way contrary to what is expected, and typically causing wry amusement because of this.)

- most of the time they take it well. it’s a learning experience, lesson learned and all is good.

- but there have been a few times when they got pissed and mutter i have an aggressive dog. then i show a vid clip of him playing tug with a six year old girl who visits our house to see him and they just shake their head and walk off

- somebody here once said opinions are often like concrete.....once formed they'll never change. SO true when it comes to dog stuff
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Old 03-12-2017, 01:37 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Re: Gotta question

Quote:
Originally Posted by rick smith View Post
re : "i DO run into some people who won't believe what i tell them and insist they should be able to pet the dog. if i'm with a customer's dog, i leave. if i'm with my dog, i'll let my dog show them by barking in their face and show them. these are usually the macho type guys who think they can make any dog lick em and love em “

---- RE : how ironic…….
don't know exactly what you meant but if it's this :
(ironic : happening in a way contrary to what is expected, and typically causing wry amusement because of this.)

- most of the time they take it well. it’s a learning experience, lesson learned and all is good.
the irony is you accuse people of being the "macho type" who want to pet your dog in spite of your warning. then you make your dog bark at them to prove your point. seems as if you might fall into the category of "macho type" in that scenario.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rick smith View Post
- but there have been a few times when they got pissed and mutter i have an aggressive dog. then i show a vid clip of him playing tug with a six year old girl who visits our house to see him and they just shake their head and walk off
c'mon. really? i'd be willing to bet this has never happened. so you're telling me that after you get your to bark at them and they accuse you of having an aggressive dog, you sit them down next to you and said aggressive dog and you proceed to show them a video? cool story. it fits the tale you're trying to spin. odds of it ever having happened? i'd guess somewhere between slim and none and slim just left town...
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