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ds with inefficient immune system
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Old 05-02-2015, 04:28 PM   #1 (permalink)
Ankle Biter
 
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ds with inefficient immune system

hi all,

i have a ds that is sick and stays sick all during the warm months. the vet treats him for allergy and general sore throat, fever, etc. he responds to treatment but almost as soon as the antibiotics are withdrawn the symptoms start up all over again.

both the vet and i want to try something to boost his immune system but what? he eats TOW salmon and has eaten their bison. food doesn't seem to be the issue. environment does.

any and all ideas will be greatly appreciated.

tia,
pat vaughn
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Old 05-03-2015, 01:30 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Re: ds with inefficient immune system

Raw meat as food (barf) and a treatment of probiotica can help.
Hope it works.
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Old 05-03-2015, 03:43 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Re: ds with inefficient immune system

gsd with "problems" to say the least
- confirmed diagnosis of EPI so needed supplements to digest properly
- often got inflamed red ears
- had problems with cysts
- shedded WAY more than the average healthy gsd
- regularly got inflamed stomach rashes requiring Baytril treatments
- seen/evaluated by board certified diplomate canine derm specialist who said problems were all related to a (probably genetic) weak immune system. provided a full page readout with a lot of big words used

was VERY careful with diets; tried a lot of "premium" brands
- only food that stopped the periodic runs was Honest Kitchen, which also produced the hugest poop piles you have ever seen

switched cold turkey to all raw (whole chickens with organs) and meaty beef bones with an occasional raw egg ... no other supplements and nothing else in the dog's diet except some lemon balm and mint leaves growing out back

within three months
- no runs
- significantly less shedding and smoother fur
- no more stomach rashes
- cysts dried, fell off and didn't come back
- digestive enzyme requirements (creon) reduced by 60%

no change in energy level or weight and no temperament changes, but it did pee a lot more

of course it's only one case but no immune system building supps or any meds were used. the only major change in its life was diet and about a 30% increase in daily exercise.

you haven't said what allergies were diagnosed and what antibiotics were used so i don't know how relevant my post is, if at all
- what have you and your vet tried so far to "boost" the immune system ?
- have you considered any environmental or social stresses that might be effecting it, and if so what are they ? (what does it do, does the dog live alone with you or with other dogs too, easy to train or a PITA, temperament issues, etc ??)
- have you considered it might be "activity related" vice "season related" ??

good luck and give us some more info. doubt you will find a magic bullet that will solve the problem
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Old 05-03-2015, 08:11 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Re: ds with inefficient immune system

gsd with "problems" to say the least

What are you saying exactly?
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Old 05-03-2015, 09:53 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Re: ds with inefficient immune system

If its only in the warm months and the symptoms totally disappear in the colder ones then consider looking at things that grow in the warmer conditions such as molds, fungi, some bacterias, or such. Stagnant waters, animals that would be bringing the crud in such as mice. Insecticides, herbicides, fertilizers, etc could all be playing a part too. If you feed the same food summer and winter and the dog gets better in winter then I don't think its so much the food but something in the environment.
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Old 05-03-2015, 10:15 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Re: ds with inefficient immune system

re: "If its only in the warm months and the symptoms totally disappear in the colder ones then consider looking at things that grow in the warmer conditions such as molds, fungi, some bacterias, or such. Stagnant waters, animals that would be bringing the crud in such as mice. Insecticides, herbicides, fertilizers, etc could all be playing a part too. If you feed the same food summer and winter and the dog gets better in winter then I don't think its so much the food but something in the environment."
.... agree with all this

plus the dog might be munching/feeding on something that only grows in warm temps
- how much time does the dog have out of sight ? if one is trying to isolate a cause it might pay to monitor the dog more closely

this is never easy to nail down and the original post was NOT very descriptive
- when people take their time to respond in detail, posters should courteous and reciprocate

what distresses me is to hear this is with a dutch shepherd and i would want to know the breeder and the bloodlines and hope the poster would not be reluctant to pass that info along
---then again, most of the bloodline info i got when i inquired about floppy eared mals was sent by PM //lol//
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Old 05-03-2015, 04:30 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Re: ds with inefficient immune system

What does his bloodwork say? Can you post the specific results? Have you looked at Dr.Dodds website for allergy testing? It may be that warm weather exacerbates the issue (common), but it's actually a year round issue
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Old 05-03-2015, 07:25 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Re: ds with inefficient immune system

thank you all for your replies and suggestions.

rick. lev is out Copper Mountain's Ry X Caelan du Chenil des Titans. none of the other pups have any problems. only mine. nor do the parents or any of the siblings of the parents. if you want additional info on the bloodline pm me.

as far as mold and other possible things he could be picking up in the yard, neither is an issue. i live in the sw and mold is rarely a problem. he spends little time in the yard and because i, too, thought he might be picking something up out there i monitored his outdoor activity for several weeks and saw nothing. he's usually in the house with me or with me when i go anywhere. exercise is often and rigorous, when he's feeling well. other times we do a little ob, just so he's not being totally inactive. i don't think the problem stems from anything other than allergy to grasses, weeds, juniper trees, and possibly cottonwoods--all of which are abundant where i live.

given the suggestions here and from others, i'm putting him on a raw diet and supplementing with probiotics, and a mushroom formula designed to boost the immune system and raise the energy level. also, adding zinc & enchanea (sp?) to his diet. i know i should be doing this on a one-at-a time basis so to control the variables and have a better idea of what works or doesn't. but i so do want him well that i'm just throwing it all at him and hoping some or all will do the trick. he's also going to be on antibiotics until this latest bout is cleared up and possibly throughout the allergy season, depending on what his vet and i agree on.

again, i thank all of you for your help and i'll post progress/results as we go.

pat
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Old 05-03-2015, 11:41 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Re: ds with inefficient immune system

My older GSD has EPI. Ddiagnosed at about 8-9 yrs old. 11 this past Jan.

One thing I learned quickly was to believe a common saying in the EPI world.

"If you've seen one dog with EPI, you've seen one dog with EPI".

It took me, with Connie's help, almost a yr before I figured out a diet that would put weight on him and keep him healthy.

Every dog is different.

Thunder gets two cups of food with 1 tsp per cup of Panakare Plus powder, three times a day with One half cup hot water per meal. That sits for 20 mins before feeding it.

Dry coat , heavy shedding, REALLY smelly, runny stools, stool eating, dirt eating. Weight went from 80 lb to 64 lb before it was finally diagnosed, again with help from Connie.

Other then old and wobbly, like me He's healthy today but I have to be very strict about no treats, no snacks, etc. Without the powder it just goes through him and no nutrients are absorbed.

Almost 80% of EPI dogs are GSDs. Long haired Collies are #2 but it can strike ANY breed or mix.
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Old 05-04-2015, 12:14 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Re: ds with inefficient immune system

TX a lot for adding some background and helping to fill in some blanks !
magic mushrooms ? //lol//

great to have so much concern but watch the herbs less you or the vet knows the effect each will have on a canine

a few years back i wrote a few letters to one of the premium brand dog food companies who promoted their blend of herbs used in their mix. i think it was Origen. i asked how they had arrived at their mix of herbs and if they had been tested on canines to determine the amount to use in their formula, etc.
- i didn't send emails; i wrote hard copy snail mails. i never got one response

medications seem to always have a faster effect than a natural food or supplement. i'm sure you realize this; just wanted to point it out again

is you vet on board with your approach ?
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