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Personal Protection Dogs Questions and discussion specifically relating to dogs trained for \"Real World\" personal protection.


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Saved by your PPD
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Old 08-26-2011, 09:25 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Re: Saved by your PPD

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Originally Posted by Nicole Fisher View Post
I have zero experience with personal protection dogs/training. I do have another story about an untrained dog protecting me when the need arose though. He was a boxer... a farm dog and family pet that I took with me when I moved away from home. He had never even looked at a human funny, let alone bit or acted aggressively toward one.

Anyway.. I was 18 at the time and this guy I had recently broken up with had come over drunk and angry late one night. Why I let him in I'm not sure. I guess the dog knew something wasn't right with this guy because he was barking even after I let him in. In the past the dog had always seemed to like this guy. So I put the dog in the kitchen and gated him in there. The guy and I got into a fight of course, and he wouldn't leave. I threatened to call the cops.. he took my phone and smashed it. I tried to get to the house phone, and that's when the fight escalated and he got physical. He had me pinned down on the stairs and starting punching me.. choking me.. it was insane. I remember thinking "I can't breathe.. this guy is going to kill me.. it's all over." Next thing I know he lets go of me and starts screaming. The dog busted down the gate and there he was.. he had the guy by the back of the leg. I was able to run up the stairs and call the cops at that point. I was on the phone with the 911 dispatch when this guy started yelling for me to help him. I told the dispatch woman that my dog was attacking this guy, and I was going to go see if I could stop him. She said something like, "stay put and lock the bedroom door," but I thought if the dog was still attacking him when the cops got there that they might shoot him or something. I didn't really care what was happening to the guy or what might happen to me.. just worried about the dog. My memory of this gets kind of fuzzy at this point, but I grabbed this heavy statue in case I needed to defend myself with it, ran downstairs and found the guy in the fetal position under the kitchen table, trying to cover his face and trying to kick the dog. There was blood everywhere. I was in shock.. I stood there and just watched for what seemed like forever. I somehow got the dog off of him which, from what I remember, wasn't easy.. the dog was going mad. I remember I had to pick the dog up and carry him all the way into the back yard. I ran to the front of the house to wait for the cops.

The dog put this guy in the hospital.. they took him away in an ambulance. His mother called me all upset the next day and told me he had a broken finger and they had to stitch up numerous bite wounds on his hands, arms and legs. The guy apparently had a warrant at that time for another assault charge so he was going to do some time, and I felt he had gotten what was coming to him, plus I was young and dumb, so I didn't press charges. I just wanted to be done with it all.. and you bet that guy never messed with me again.

As for the dog.. he was fine aside from some bruising/swelling where he was kicked around his ribs. He was back to his normal, goofy self right away and I never saw him snap like that ever again. I let him sleep in my room from that point on until he passed away. I've always said I possibly owe my life to that boxer.. certainly one dog I'll never forget.
What a great story! I had a pitbull that was protection trained years ago. My brothers girl friend used to drive a sea food truck and make deliveries to the Atlanta as well as a lot of other places. She stoped by and got the dog for company.. Well there was a trip book in the truck that had directions to all the stops for the driver. Sometime between the time the trip directions were written and when Kelly was mmaking the trip, all the exit numbers off the freeway in atlanta were changed. She got there about one in the morning and was hopelessly lost. She stopped at a pay phone (this was pre cell phone and gps) and tried to call the place she was going.She was very upset. She was in some ghetto section and started getting surrounded by a group of dirt bags who started trying to open the back of the truck, but the guy could not figure out how too open it. She had left her gun , pepper spray and the dog in the truck. She yelled to the guys to please get away from her truck and the guy grabbed his crotch and said F%$## YOU ! and started walking towards her. She had left the window open just wide enough for the dog to squeeze out, and when my dog came out kelly gave the command to watch em. Well that dog could look terrefying when she was going ape shit, but she would not bite unless she was told. Well those guys got the picture really fast and booked the hell out of there.
Kelly spoiled that dog rotten after that, and I had to draw the line when my dog started looking like a stuffed sousage from getting so many treats. But I really think that dog saved Kelly from having some bad thing happen to her. I know alot of you guys are not pitbull fans, but that was really a great dog.
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Old 08-26-2011, 09:32 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Re: Saved by your PPD

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Originally Posted by Patrick Murray View Post
I'm delighted to hear that your dog responded in the way that it did. It makes me all warm and fuzzy inside.

On another note and directed and no one in particular, your dog is YOUR dog and should NOT be a part of your social circle. After all, often times it's an acquaintance, friend or even a family member that attack. Your dog should NOT have a relationship with anyone except those that you absolutely trust with your life. For me that includes my wife, son, my parents and my nephew. That's it.

I also do NOT believe in putting up gates or kenneling my dog when someone is over to visit. Train your dog, establish control over your dog and teach it a "place" command when someone comes over. I'm not saying one should NEVER put their dog away, but it should be the exception and NOT the rule.
You have a good point about not crating the dog. It will not be there when you need it. The barber in this town was a victim of a home invasion. He is a seventy something year old man and they beat the crap out of him. He has a yard full of dogs, but none in side. He was twelve feet from his gun and never had a chance to get to it, they were on him to fast. He some how slept through the dogs outside barking, but I believe if he had one inside it would have given him time to get to his gun.
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Old 08-26-2011, 09:51 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Re: Saved by your PPD

I travel from time to time for work. Sometimes I find myself in areas that are desolate and don't offer a lot in the way of a place to stay. So I got to the point I'd take a dog with me. On my second go around in this particular little town I brought a little bandog bitch. I was in my room asleep and the dog was on the floor beside the bed between me and door. She woke me up with a very defensive growl and by the time I sat up in the bed the door came open. I was half asleep and still kinda loopy from being asleep. This guy takes a step into the room and I told him to step back and close the door or the dog would bite him. He took another step I freed her he knew what I was doing and swung himself back through the doorway while slamming the door. I found out later it was a scam that they had been having problems with. Hotel employees were selling electronic keys to the damn crooks. There was no doubt in my mind the dog would engage the bad guy. But I still say that PPD should be treated more delicately than firearms. Had that dog have bitten that guy the shit would hit the fan. Luckily it was a deterrent scenario the way it worked out.
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Old 08-27-2011, 04:58 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Re: Saved by your PPD

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Originally Posted by Brian Anderson View Post
I travel from time to time for work. Sometimes I find myself in areas that are desolate and don't offer a lot in the way of a place to stay. So I got to the point I'd take a dog with me. On my second go around in this particular little town I brought a little bandog bitch. I was in my room asleep and the dog was on the floor beside the bed between me and door. She woke me up with a very defensive growl and by the time I sat up in the bed the door came open. I was half asleep and still kinda loopy from being asleep. This guy takes a step into the room and I told him to step back and close the door or the dog would bite him. He took another step I freed her he knew what I was doing and swung himself back through the doorway while slamming the door. I found out later it was a scam that they had been having problems with. Hotel employees were selling electronic keys to the damn crooks. There was no doubt in my mind the dog would engage the bad guy. But I still say that PPD should be treated more delicately than firearms. Had that dog have bitten that guy the shit would hit the fan. Luckily it was a deterrent scenario the way it worked out.
Maybe not the place as im really liking these stories.

Would the shit really hit the fan??

Is it not unlike you protecting yourself from harm just the dog doing it for you and i mean this should only happen in a very serious situation.

Dont you have the right to protect yourself with a defence that meets the attackers force or intention?
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Old 08-27-2011, 06:13 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Re: Saved by your PPD

In South Africa, the while the force is proprotional to the attack (in the case of a PPD) by the criminal. So in that story, had the dog bitten somebody entering the room, the person has reason to suspect that the person entering is there to break in or otherwise harm him and it would be fine in our courts if the dog bit him. again the dog can only bite until the attacker is properly arrested or under control and no longer a threat, anything after that would create a problem. In the case of a PPD bite, I would advise the handler to immediately open a case of burglary, tresspassing, assault or what ever at the nearest police station, just to cover your own back. you never know if the guy who got bit makes up some story about it and then goes to the police. If you have reported it first it gives you an advantage.

Every case is different but over here, the people are fed up with crime and the while the force used is there to arrest the attacker and not 'punish' him, it will be thrown out of court. It all comes down to the intent of the handler I guess and the situation. just after we became a democracy and our constitution was drafted, we went through a phase in our justice system where the criminals had sooooo many rights and you could do almost nothing to them, but there is a definate change in that sort of attitude because people are getting fed up. The police are now also allowed to be abit more forceful when dealing with criminals which is especially good considering the amount of police killings we have. (we went through phases when police officers were under alot of pressure for using excessive force. they basically hardly ever shot or used there dogs, but then crime got out of control and with our new police general in charge, he has helped empower them again and make them a force to be reckoned with.)
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Old 08-27-2011, 06:18 AM   #26 (permalink)
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Re: Saved by your PPD

Something I should add about dogs that are housed in a garden, etc. If anyone enters your garden, without your permission, it is deemed tresspassing, and should the dog then bite that person, it will be acceptable in the court of law, provided that:

ALL perimeter entrances to the property have large, clear signs, in 3 offical languages that state "Warning/Beware: guard dogs on the property-entry is at own risk" as well as a clear picture of a dog.

There must also be a means for the public to get hold of the owner of the property i.e. an intercom or phone number available, etc.

The dog should also not have any history of unlawful attacks on people (i.e. deem a dangerous dog)

with these measures in place, should someone breach the perimeter of the owners property and the dog bites him, I would advise the owner to make a case of tresspassing against the perpetrator and give a full statement to the police of what happened. That is always the safest.

I forgot to add that this is the case usually in South Africa.
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Old 08-27-2011, 08:14 AM   #27 (permalink)
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Re: Saved by your PPD

Ten or twelve years ago I had a co-worker and K9 Sgt. attacked while on a domestic disturbance. The suspect was intoxicated and had severly assaulted a female at the home. Officer made contact with the suspect and was attacked himself while attempting to arrest the offender. Officer ended up on his back with a very large/intoxicated and pissed off suspect mounted on him. Offender was getting the best of the exchange and began attempting to remove his duty weapon from its holster. The handler maintained enough composure to deploy his K9 via remote door popper. Out came Hammer and the fight was on. His dog put a quick end to a fight that may have cost my friend his life! Suspect ultimately pled guilty to all charges and apologized in open court. IMO this dog paid for himself in this one single deployment.
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Old 08-27-2011, 09:09 AM   #28 (permalink)
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Re: Saved by your PPD

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Originally Posted by brad robert View Post
Maybe not the place as im really liking these stories.

Would the shit really hit the fan??

Is it not unlike you protecting yourself from harm just the dog doing it for you and i mean this should only happen in a very serious situation.

Dont you have the right to protect yourself with a defence that meets the attackers force or intention?
Here in the states Brad the criminals have more rights than the victims. Sad but true. The particular dog I had with me that night would have inflicted serious damage to the guy and I would have been sued along with the hotel and anyone else who happened to standing around. They would have confiscated my dog and most likely killed her as a "dangerous and vicious pitbull" and god knows what else.
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Old 08-27-2011, 10:57 AM   #29 (permalink)
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Re: Saved by your PPD

Great post Jeremy! I have seen a couple of situations where the intoxicated guys shout and swear and taunt the officers to release their dogs during a bar fight etc. Its amazing the how quickly the courage the alcohol has given them, desserts them when the first rottweiler engages their bicep...They cry louder than babies. Gets me laughing every time they cause trouble. Unfortunately people here dont have enough respect for the police but since there has been an attitude shift and better legislation proposed, the police have been given more rights to protect themselves and the community and as such are allowed to enforce discipline and respect when called upon. I guess its right in a country where we have had over 100 police officers murdered while on duty this year alone.
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Old 08-27-2011, 11:21 AM   #30 (permalink)
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Re: Saved by your PPD

For those of you who are interested in the sort of crime that happens in South Africa literally on a daily basis. large gangs of thugs armed with assault rifles and who are ever more starting to use bullet proof vests:

http://www.witness.co.za/index.php?s...5B_id%5D=52820


Thats why our courts tend to be a little more lenient towards officers during an apprehension provided that its conducted with in the law.

There are many more stories like this one and ample where police dogs, esp along our east coast are killed but I though I would rather spare you guys that.
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