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Personal Protection Dogs Questions and discussion specifically relating to dogs trained for \"Real World\" personal protection.


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Questions on personal protection w/ rottweiler
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Old 01-23-2015, 06:44 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Questions on personal protection w/ rottweiler

So I'm coming to realize my rottweiler probably wont be best suited for sport. And am doing more research into personal protection. I know this is a loaded subject for working dog people. (I know the liabilities, and how to control a dog, and I do have safety reasons for wanting a 'real biting dog')
My question is would it be detrimental to have him work on a decoy who does sport? Mondio to be exact.
He's 6 months, and we've done TONS of work on OB (sport type), and very minimal bitework. Like only doing it myself by back-tying him and teasing him with a tug and a rolled towel (which he prefers). We are starting more serious bitework at a club next week. Is there anything in particular I should look out for or ask of them to make sure I don't screw anything up for personal protection type training?
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Old 01-23-2015, 07:25 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Re: Questions on personal protection w/ rottweiler

re: "So I'm coming to realize my rottweiler probably wont be best suited for sport."
??? imo, that needs further explanation

you have posted about the OB work, which would NOT rule out sport work of any kind.....

** but "nothing heard" about the protection side

what does the club have to say, what is the problem, and why would you still consider personal protection if the dog has problems with engaging and gripping ? (if that is the problem)
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Old 01-23-2015, 07:30 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Re: Questions on personal protection w/ rottweiler

otoh, having a big bad looking dog that will bark on command would give you some degree of "personal protection" and deter many potential problems

will it do that ??
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Old 01-24-2015, 08:50 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Sorry, I know I didn't explain much. Just didn't want to write a novel. Lol
The reason I'm thinking he won't be best for sport is that he's got pretty low prey drive. And it's probably my fault, that I didn't build it enough as he's been younger. BUT I also haven't done any real bite work with him yet (slow maturing dog and my original club didn't have a facility to use all winter). So maybe I'm getting ahead of myself. And a decoy that knows what he's doing can get him going.
He has 100% engagement. (I'm proud of that work) thanks for the input Rick. I need to just get him going in the club and find out what he's really capabe of from there.
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Old 01-24-2015, 08:53 AM   #5 (permalink)
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I need to stop making posts the moment I get worried about my dog not doing something right. Lol
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Old 01-24-2015, 11:17 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Re: Questions on personal protection w/ rottweiler

I have had experience with low to medium type dogs. From what you have said , " 6 months old , tons of sort type obedience" . Here is what i do with " all " dogs that come in for "PP (bite , threat or sport) Look at training like a triangle, with tracking , protection at the base corners , with obedience in the middle. I concentrate most heavily on the protection( agitation) work , followed closely with tracking (presumably if you are interested in schH sport) on the other base corner, with the obedience in the centre following well behind to all reach the top.( the obedience was the last to arrive at the top) It also sounds like you have done too much obedience at such a young age.
I do post work (back tie) myself for all dogs intended to do bite work. At the 8 foot length , i teach timing , targeting, high /low, left /right, bite work on the tug. I then move to 25 foot range ( now a handler needs to control the dog , to allow smooth feed out of the long line. I do the same sequence of work at the longer length, incorporating more chase., leading to " the courage test" ( back-up catch first)
. This also teaches the dog to work away from the handler. All done on the tug.
I find doing too much obedience / stress at an young age can deter drives needed for the work you have in mind.
Example , had a male Rottweiler come in for training ,to have me put a schH title on him. He was not highly driven in many respects , but i managed to bring him to a level , to attain his schH1 & also high in trial , high in tracking ( DVG) that is as far as we could go with him. He lacked the desire & drives to go on.
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Old 01-24-2015, 02:00 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Re: Questions on personal protection w/ rottweiler

Quote:
Originally Posted by halie lenk View Post
I need to stop making posts the moment I get worried about my dog not doing something right. Lol
Maybe

But don't worry. At 6 months there's more to be gained from a dog.
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Old 01-24-2015, 02:16 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Re: Questions on personal protection w/ rottweiler

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Cipparone View Post
I have had experience with low to medium type dogs. From what you have said , " 6 months old , tons of sort type obedience" . Here is what i do with " all " dogs that come in for "PP (bite , threat or sport) Look at training like a triangle, with tracking , protection at the base corners , with obedience in the middle. I concentrate most heavily on the protection( agitation) work , followed closely with tracking (presumably if you are interested in schH sport) on the other base corner, with the obedience in the centre following well behind to all reach the top.( the obedience was the last to arrive at the top) It also sounds like you have done too much obedience at such a young age.
I do post work (back tie) myself for all dogs intended to do bite work. At the 8 foot length , i teach timing , targeting, high /low, left /right, bite work on the tug. I then move to 25 foot range ( now a handler needs to control the dog , to allow smooth feed out of the long line. I do the same sequence of work at the longer length, incorporating more chase., leading to " the courage test" ( back-up catch first)
. This also teaches the dog to work away from the handler. All done on the tug.
I find doing too much obedience / stress at an young age can deter drives needed for the work you have in mind.
Example , had a male Rottweiler come in for training ,to have me put a schH title on him. He was not highly driven in many respects , but i managed to bring him to a level , to attain his schH1 & also high in trial , high in tracking ( DVG) that is as far as we could go with him. He lacked the desire & drives to go on.
I think this is very good advice. I have trained with a number of Rottweilers. In Germany, my breeder, also a Schutzhund helper asked me to tie my GSD out next to the Rottweiler to motivate him.

The Rottweilers I saw at this Club were slow to react in protection work. The Club was near Rottweil!

In Switzerland I have come across a number of good Rottweilers. We had good contact to a local Rottweiler Club. One of my friends has a Rottweiler in the Police Force.

Don't give up too easily.There is always satisfaction in getting good notes in a local trial.
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Old 01-24-2015, 02:35 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Re: Questions on personal protection w/ rottweiler

And:

To choose a dog that will exceed at Worlds is ok. To choose a breed of dog that satisfies your inner feelings of how a dog should be, is something else but maybe more satisfying.
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Old 01-24-2015, 05:47 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Re: Questions on personal protection w/ rottweiler

Quote:
Originally Posted by halie lenk View Post
My question is would it be detrimental to have him work on a decoy who does sport? Mondio to be exact.
No. Not detrimental at all.



Quote:
Originally Posted by halie lenk View Post
Is there anything in particular I should look out for or ask of them to make sure I don't screw anything up for personal protection type training?
One thing in particular to look for....is to see if the decoy begins to work your dog in the same exact manner as the dogs being trained for Mondio. If that occurs, you will not be getting the exact services you are exactly paying for(assuming).

Ask them to conduct some training in the fashion that you will anticipate employing your dog during his/your family lifetime. In other words, far away from the club and club field. Build the foundation where the building will stand.
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