Personal attachment in PPDs - Page 3 - Working Dog Forum
Welcome to the Working Dog Forum.
Header



Working Dog Forum » Work Specific Discussion » Personal Protection Dogs » Personal attachment in PPDs

Personal Protection Dogs Questions and discussion specifically relating to dogs trained for \"Real World\" personal protection.


Reply
tcat left
Personal attachment in PPDs
vBmenu Seperating Image LinkBack Thread Tools vBmenu Seperating Image Display Modes vBmenu Seperating Image
Old 11-18-2015, 07:13 PM   #21 (permalink)
Broke the Bark Collar
 
Status: Senior Member
Training: Other
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 4,139
Re: Personal attachment in PPDs

long story but might be relevant for some readers....

last week i was out with my assistant trainer who has been working with me a LOT the last few months and has amazing natural dog sense. she's the only person who can take my dog out in public

so we are in a dark park late at night "chatting" on a bench back in the corner...
my dog was with us as he always is ... laying down
suddenly gets up and slowly walks out to the end of the lead
ears go forward, tail raises and he goes into a very low growl staring in one direction. nothing more than a low growl but NOT a normal behavior i see

we are both kinda fascinated at this and try and figure out what the heck is causing it because cats walking around or a wandering weasel doesn't get this kinda vocal.
- couple minutes pass by and we finally see someone hanging around next to a tree about 20 odd meters away. we get up and walk over and it's some guy who has no legit reason for standing there watching us at 2:00am
- walked over with the dog and he maintained the focus on the guy and kept up the growling. i purposely did NOT try and calm him

the guy was visibly nervous and asked if the dog would bite. i said the dog LOVES to bite; which is true //LOL//
- guy slinked off

we both figured it was a weirdo who was hoping he might get a free show of some couple doing the nasty //LOL//

my dog is NOT trained AT ALL as a PPD. besides being unnecessary here in Japan, he does not have the basic temperament to be a good one
( and i have clearly stated before what i think the definition of a PPD is )

but in my opinion, that is all that 90% of owners need, whether they live in Japan, or a crime infested getto
- a dog who will alert and intimidate and calm back down when told
- why ?? because i am a FIRM believer that 99.99% of all the scumbags on the earth know NOTHING about canine behavior

can't wait to hear all the stories of PPD's who saved their family from being attacked and defended them by engaging the bad guy(s).

*** but not interested to read about any stories similar to what i just posted because they have NOTHING to do with a PPD doing its job
rick smith is offline   Reply With Quote

Please Register!
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 11-18-2015, 08:31 PM   #22 (permalink)
Ankle Biter
 
Status: Junior Member
Training: Basic OB
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 34
Cool Re: Personal attachment in PPDs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas Ball View Post
Jeffrey, at 1:09 he is not wearing protection gear, not even wearing a jacket, just a T-shirt.
I agree, dogs are having fun when doing protection work, especially sport dogs. But what happens, when you muzzle your dog and there's real fight between the decoy and the dog? I think most dogs realize then that it's for real, not just a game (ie they're not in prey drive all the time). (There's no muzzle work in the video.)
I'm just surprised these dogs change owners that easily. Everyone's heard of dogs whose owners died and they were miserable till their death. This shows that at least some dogs are faithful, a dog that changes owners in 2 days is not (in my interpretation).
Ah yes, he is also not doing bite work, just using technique to raise motivation.

When I go on long trips, I have taken my Jack Russell to a friends house. They are a nice family. Even now when they come over the house she reacts like a Pack leader has entered the house just like when I come home. It is just that way with dogs, they see it as a pack, not a marriage. Nothing wrong with recognizing a new pack leader, no dis-loyalty in that.
Jeffrey Eggenberger is offline   Reply With Quote

Please Register!
Old 11-18-2015, 11:12 PM   #23 (permalink)
Broke the Bark Collar
 
Status: Super Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: St. Louis Missouri
Posts: 21,169
Re: Personal attachment in PPDs

When a wolf is driven from the pack it will hook up with another pack given the chance.

That wolf probably left it's "real" family of wolves.

No different then a dog connecting with a new owner.

Loyalty is the hand that feeds you!
__________________
The words of a fool offend only another fool!
Bob Scott is online now   Reply With Quote

Please Register!
 
Old 11-18-2015, 11:12 PM   #24 (permalink)
Ate the Tug
 
shelle fenton's Avatar
 
Status: Member
Training: IPO
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 164
Re: Personal attachment in PPDs

Ok, i did watch the video. I am astounded that these dogs cost so much!

I fear i am personally too attached to my dogs, that i would flounder if they went elsewhere.
I had up till i read this thread, thought they would miss me too. Perhaps not it seems.
Cept i have a rottie, who are renowned for loyalty, and a Mal pup booked. And a GSD, that would just adjust rapidly? Surely not! After 8yrs together?



Snot nice is it?
shelle fenton is offline   Reply With Quote

Please Register!
Old 11-19-2015, 04:10 AM   #25 (permalink)
Ankle Biter
 
Kirsten Fitzgerald's Avatar
 
Status: Member
Training: Personal Protection
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 67
Re: Personal attachment in PPDs

It depends on how you look at it tho'.

I've had one as a kid left with others for a year that adjusted realy well ( after trying to chase the car as we left him and was missing an hour.) The people he was left with wanted to keep him, but the deal was he was mine unless he was happier there.
Pick up day he ran barking at the car when we pulled up but sat and howled when i called his name out the window. He sat in the car as soon as the door was opened and for the hour we were there refused to get out.

My current bitch every one says is one man, but only 'cos she blows them all off, completely ignore them. I think she would miss me in most pet homes, but would revel in the change if she got serious training still in in a family environment.

Her daughter is different.More dependent on me for social cues and very slow to trust others. If she wasn't with a patient person willing to win her trust before expecting to see her or some one she knows it would be doubtful if could adjust.

The first 2 dogs are better in themselves, and for my peace of mind. Doesn't mean they wouldn't miss me either.
Kirsten Fitzgerald is offline   Reply With Quote

Please Register!
Old 11-19-2015, 08:58 AM   #26 (permalink)
Dominance Arising
 
Status: Member
Training: Personal Protection
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 287
Re: Personal attachment in PPDs

haven't read through the whole thread but don't currently have time... just adding my 2c on dogs and bonding...

from what i have seen over the years, i think it really depends on the dog... a dog that is trained in a kennel environment with multiple handlers will often bond quickly once they are placed with their working handler or family... i have also seen kennels where the decoys will handle the dogs, take them out of the kennels, load them into trailers, etc... and then someone else will handle the dog while they work it... the dogs learn that unless that person is behaving in a threatening manner, then they are not a threat...

i have 4 dogs here atm, 3 are patrol trained and one is operational USAR...
my USAR dog will work for anyone who knows his commands, even if i am present... whoever has pointed him in the right direction and released him to search is who he will look to for guidance...
my eldest patrol dog will work for anyone, and has been borrowed several times by his main decoy to go and work shifts... i could hand his leash to pretty much anyone and i'm pretty bloody sure he would even take a civil bite on me if i stirred him up with someone else handling him... he will sook up to just about anyone and is quite happy to go from chompy times to pats in a matter of minutes, though i will muzzle him for safety he has never tried to have a go at anyone...

my next youngest patrol dog could not be multi-handled but would quite happily move to another home and bond with and work for another handler... and my youngest patrol dog is a one-handler dog - me, and he has no interest in befriending anyone else... i left him kenneled with some friends of mine who understand working dogs when i was travelling for 2 months, and even after that length of time he was still very grudging of any kind of contact with them that did not involve food... he was not nasty towards them but would just keep his distance... he'd bark to say stay away at first but after a while the barking settled down and he just stayed away... he is quite social, obnoxiously so, when he is with me, and works fantastically for me, has had a live bite and several good real muzzle fights, but if i am not around he does not care for other humans at all...

i'll come back and read the rest of this thread later... but yes it is possible for dogs to be stable enough to be decoyed for and handled by the same person... and most dogs will quite willingly bond with new handlers and the process will begin quite quickly...
Jay Quinn is offline   Reply With Quote

Please Register!
Old 11-19-2015, 09:08 AM   #27 (permalink)
Dominance Arising
 
Status: Member
Training: Personal Protection
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 287
Re: Personal attachment in PPDs

this is a pic where the roles are reversed with my oldest patrol dog - the bloke handling the dog has taken hundreds of bites from him in the last 9yrs, and i'm wearing the suit... doggo cares not, so long as he gets to chomp on someone!
Attached Images
File Type: jpg jrms.jpg (60.5 KB, 12 views)
Jay Quinn is offline   Reply With Quote

Please Register!
Old 11-19-2015, 12:17 PM   #28 (permalink)
Landshark
 
Matt Vandart's Avatar
 
Status: Senior Member
Training: Other
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,764
Re: Personal attachment in PPDs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarah Platts View Post
Not sure that a dog specifically trained for PP is the only road. Not when I pick up the paper and read where this family dog or that one saved "their" family for this danger or that one. Just for curiosity, is anyone here know where their PP saved them from something? I guess I'm wondering how many times, if any, your PP dog had to actually perform that service? Other than just hanging around looking big and serious.
My doberman "Pickle" who is dead 4 years ago now, saved my GF's ass twice. Once when a junkie knocked the door and asked to borrow a lighter then barged their way in, she gripped his ass and wouldn't let go,the dog not my GF, this was BEFORE she was trained, about 6months old I think, was like 15ish years ago now. The other time when someone else (probably also a junkie) climbed through a window and got a face full of teeth for his efforts, like literally.
She 'saved my ass' countless times when out and about (we used to live in a very ropey area, similar to 'the projects'? in the US)

Both my current dobes have also performed in the real world. Tilly has nailed an aggressor (complicated story behind that one, the dude wasn't an "intruder" but got agressive due to excess alchohol) and held two other actual "univited guests" with perfect textbook "Bark and hold" till I got there. I really should lock my door...... lol.

Becca did something completely different and probably not anything to do with PP training, which they are NOT trained in. An out of control Rottie charged across the park and was heading straight for the GF (jeez she gets herself in some shit) and had definite intentions of damage, I was a good bit away with Becca who just took off and smashed into the Rottie and off the Rottie ran with his tail between his legs and yes he had a tail, lol. No sign of the owner but I knew who's it was, a security dude that lived in the local estate. The same dog attacked a mates staffy and nearly had his kid (he lived next door) they also had a ****ed up mali which was worse, they left soon after the kid event.

Disclaimer: due to the current ridiculously draconian laws in the uk re: dogs, all of the above is a complete fabrication and I am lying to make friends.
__________________
ZOMG LOW PREY, UR DOG R SUKKOR

http://www.working-dog.eu/dogs-detai...merend-Thistle
Matt Vandart is offline   Reply With Quote

Please Register!
Old 11-19-2015, 02:17 PM   #29 (permalink)
Broke the Bark Collar
 
Joby Becker's Avatar
 
Status: Senior Member
Training: Protection Sports
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: IL/WI
Posts: 11,318
Re: Personal attachment in PPDs

that is trained response at 1:09, action is performed by person who also regularly takes bites in training and generally agitates the dog to get that response. dog is showing reaction, whether the action would be followed through with a full on attack, a bite, or a nip or maybe nothing who really knows.

this type of thing is very common in training, but not really common in real life as a real threat, meaning people dont usually agitate dogs directly in real life. most "agitators" and "helpers" ahve done this type of thing. it

I have had some VERY loyal, fairly well trained dogs that would react the same way to ME if I did that to them. Almost all of my dogs would bite me if I chose to do something really stupid with them, as would many many dogs. Not all but many for sure.

most working dogs that are trained to protect handlers I would guess are bought as young adults not puppies, dogs CAN bond very fast with new handlers.

also remember that many dogs are reacting in PP role / training as a perceived threat to themselves and/or their owners/territory.. whatever

at 1:09 that was a "threat" to the dog, not the owner. and one that dog has seen many times I am sure, and most likely did not view it as a REAL threat, just doing what he is supposed to do...

a regular agitator can certainly make any decent dog look like a killer, or tough..whether the dog will react to other real life scenarios or training is not always a given.

I have seen many a dog crumble or have major setbacks in training when new people and or techniques/stress are applied. I have also known many dogs that failed in real life that look real good in training.

done rambling...
__________________
Sorry, but BOTH my dogs think YOU are an A-Hole, and I believe them..........
Joby Becker is offline   Reply With Quote

Please Register!
Old 11-19-2015, 02:21 PM   #30 (permalink)
Landshark
 
Matt Vandart's Avatar
 
Status: Senior Member
Training: Other
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,764
Re: Personal attachment in PPDs

Good ramblingz
__________________
ZOMG LOW PREY, UR DOG R SUKKOR

http://www.working-dog.eu/dogs-detai...merend-Thistle
Matt Vandart is offline   Reply With Quote

Please Register!
Reply



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:12 PM.


 

SEO by vBSEO 3.2.0 RC5