Personal attachment in PPDs - Working Dog Forum
Welcome to the Working Dog Forum.
Header



Working Dog Forum » Work Specific Discussion » Personal Protection Dogs » Personal attachment in PPDs

Personal Protection Dogs Questions and discussion specifically relating to dogs trained for \"Real World\" personal protection.


Reply
tcat left
Personal attachment in PPDs
vBmenu Seperating Image LinkBack Thread Tools vBmenu Seperating Image Display Modes vBmenu Seperating Image
Old 11-17-2015, 10:39 AM   #1 (permalink)
Ankle Biter
 
Status: Junior Member
Training: Don't Own a Dog
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 10
Personal attachment in PPDs

I'd like to know what you guys think:

As you know, there are many companies offering trained PPDs, usually GSDs and Mals. When the new owner comes, they get a one-, maybe two-day training, then leave with the dog. AFAIK Mals are very loyal dogs, how can they transition from their trainers (their family) to the new owner so quickly? IMO the answer is they can't, unless they're not really bonded with any of their trainers. But then will they learn to truly bond with their new family?

In my view, an ideal PPD (for me at least) is one that is somewhat friendly to the general public, and only switches to protection mode if the need arises. Then switches right back. The fawn Cane Corso (Mario) in this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbg6fDNdc5Y seems to be a good example of this. Here's what's strange to me: These two guys work together, Mario is Leedor's own dog. Leedor says ".. he'd kill Rob for me now, but at the same time it'll sit and lick him, he's got no personal attachment." And in this short video you can see clips of Mario attacking Rob (who is NOT wearing any equipment), and you can also see him licking Rob. So here's my question: is Mario really that stable, capable of loving and attacking the same guy within a few minutes, or does he just not take protection work with Rob so seriously? (I know sport dogs do it all the time, but here there's no sleeve, no suit...)

And one final question concerning the above video. At 1:05 Leedor calls Mario back to him, and for a split second Mario seems pretty submissive. Is it just me, or would you guys not want to see that in your dog either?

Thanks for your patience, I hope I was clear enough, can't wait to hear what you think!
Thomas Ball is offline   Reply With Quote

Please Register!
Please visit our Sponsor

Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 11-17-2015, 01:55 PM   #2 (permalink)
Landshark
 
Matt Vandart's Avatar
 
Status: Senior Member
Training: Other
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,733
Re: Personal attachment in PPDs

I don't like soft dogs.
I wouldn't train Mals for PP.
I have seen and trained with dogs that can switch on and off like you say.
I havn't watched the vid.
Personally I think one should train ones own PP dog for the reasons you have mentioned.
All just my opinion, do with it as you will.
__________________
ZOMG LOW PREY, UR DOG R SUKKOR

http://www.working-dog.eu/dogs-detai...merend-Thistle
Matt Vandart is offline   Reply With Quote

Please Register!
Old 11-17-2015, 02:08 PM   #3 (permalink)
Ankle Biter
 
Status: Junior Member
Training: Don't Own a Dog
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 10
Re: Personal attachment in PPDs

Matt, thanks for your input!
Maybe I gave the wrong impression, I wouldn't buy any trained, or even adult dog, I think training is about 50% of the fun of having a dog!
Why wouldn't you train Mals for PP?
Thomas Ball is offline   Reply With Quote

Please Register!
 
Old 11-17-2015, 05:05 PM   #4 (permalink)
Landshark
 
Matt Vandart's Avatar
 
Status: Senior Member
Training: Other
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,733
Re: Personal attachment in PPDs

Because most families/clients would not keep up with the requirements (exercise/simulation) of a working (or pretty much any) Malinois.
__________________
ZOMG LOW PREY, UR DOG R SUKKOR

http://www.working-dog.eu/dogs-detai...merend-Thistle
Matt Vandart is offline   Reply With Quote

Please Register!
Old 11-17-2015, 07:24 PM   #5 (permalink)
Landshark
 
leslie cassian's Avatar
 
Status: Senior Member
Training: Undecided
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Ontario
Posts: 1,607
Re: Personal attachment in PPDs

Dogs are amazingly adaptable. Every foster dog I've had through my home in the last couple of years has started to look to me and bond within hours. And they've all moved on to permanent homes and bonded with new owners without issue.

Why should it be any different with an already trained PPD, especially one that's being promoted as a family protection dog at $40,000?

I didn't see anything special about any of the dogs on the video, but then again, I'm not rich enough to be the target market for an executive protection dog, and I've seen enough sport dog training to not be impressed by some video of dogs biting and barking.

Why an adult trained dog? Because most people don't have the time, resources (access to trained helpers and equipment) and handling skills to take a pup to a high level of training and reliability on their own.
leslie cassian is offline   Reply With Quote

Please Register!
Old 11-18-2015, 12:21 AM   #6 (permalink)
Broke the Bark Collar
 
Status: Super Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: St. Louis Missouri
Posts: 21,119
Re: Personal attachment in PPDs

I think most people would be heart broken if they realize how quickly a dog can adjust to a new owner.

Shy, aggressive, outgoing, you name it, it's just a matter of understanding what's in a dogs head, treating it right and feeding it.

2-3 yr old K9 dogs do it on a regular basis and I doubt there was no connection with former trainers be it something as simple as dominating the dog to putting the effort into it to treat it right.

It's more about the new owner/trainer then it is the dog.

I do agree about the fun of training a new pup.

I'd rather do that then compete on a competition field or ring.
__________________
The words of a fool offend only another fool!
Bob Scott is offline   Reply With Quote

Please Register!
Old 11-18-2015, 01:53 AM   #7 (permalink)
Ankle Biter
 
Status: Junior Member
Training: Don't Own a Dog
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 10
Re: Personal attachment in PPDs

Whatever happened to faithfulness then? I know there are certain breeds that don't change owners easily (and certain individuals within the breeds). Australian Cattle Dog, Skye Terrier come to mind. And I think the way you raise the dog also has an impact, if you use several handlers on a regular basis, that might help a lot in the transitioning.

15-20 years ago I read somewhere that law enforcement agencies didn't like to use Mals or Dobes because they were to attached to one handler, and didn't change owners quickly. It seems like that has changed (if it was ever true).
Thomas Ball is offline   Reply With Quote

Please Register!
Old 11-18-2015, 11:27 AM   #8 (permalink)
Broke the Bark Collar
 
Status: Senior Member
Training: Other
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 4,057
Re: Personal attachment in PPDs

after reading, i'm very tempted to ask you to explain why you think there are some breeds who have trouble changing owners and why you listed those particular breeds....but i won't
- mainly because, as Leslie just pointed out and Bob amplified, dogs are highly adaptable to changing environments (whether good or bad)

- i have worked with dogs who blew off their owners 24/7. i've changed those dogs names and created immediate focus when they heard their new name ... in less than a week
....and i am no super trainer by any means //lol//

so i think i could actually help you more by trying to get you to commit to getting a dog and start training it rather than feed your curiosity

your many years of research on dogs should have given you a good foundation you can use in the real world, so i'm interested to know how that pans out after you get a dog and post about your dog training journey

i assume you have at least decided on what training system you will be using
how did you arrive at that decision ?
---- please feel free to elaborate

we had a guy on here who posted everything and anything about his "ideal" dog
- became obsessed with pedigrees of working dogs; especially KNPV lines
- finally got a pup from one of those famous bloodlines
....then disappeared

hope you don't fall into that category

that's why i'd rather spend my online time with someone who has one and asks for help rather than chat about abstract canine hypotheticals
rick smith is offline   Reply With Quote

Please Register!
Old 11-18-2015, 11:59 AM   #9 (permalink)
Ankle Biter
 
Status: Junior Member
Training: Don't Own a Dog
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 10
Re: Personal attachment in PPDs

Rick, no one's asking you to spend time answering my questions (which you did not). I posted the questions, and whoever feels like answering them can do so, nobody's obliged to reply. No need to get nasty. Unless you enjoy it, then please feel free to continue.

There's nothing I'd like to do more than get a dog tomorrow, however, in my present situation I cannot. I'm not sure why it's a sin to discuss hypotheticals on workingdogforum.com , but I'll take your word for it that it is.
Thomas Ball is offline   Reply With Quote

Please Register!
Old 11-18-2015, 12:14 PM   #10 (permalink)
Landshark
 
Matt Vandart's Avatar
 
Status: Senior Member
Training: Other
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,733
Re: Personal attachment in PPDs

I don't think Rick is being Nasty intentionally, i think he is just being Rick. I don't think Rick is nasty.

Also, wonder what happened to Michael Murphy and his HAAAADKOWAH!! pup.

To the OP are you getting a dog to train in PP? that would be cool
__________________
ZOMG LOW PREY, UR DOG R SUKKOR

http://www.working-dog.eu/dogs-detai...merend-Thistle
Matt Vandart is offline   Reply With Quote

Please Register!
Reply



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:30 AM.


 

SEO by vBSEO 3.2.0 RC5