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schutzhund and tracking?
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Old 05-15-2016, 01:40 PM   #1 (permalink)
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schutzhund and tracking?

I want to start tracking with my mal pup. He is about 7 months. He does go to schutzhund training once a week and I was told by my local search and rescue team that its very hard to do both. Id love to here some insight. I can see how it could be confusing but I know of guite a few people that have done is successfully. Thoughts will be greatly appriciated!!
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Old 05-15-2016, 04:15 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Re: schutzhund and tracking?

The local SAR group in my area doesn't accept dogs that have been train in bite work. But depend on how you train IPO, some club when they are doing blind search, the dogs run the blinds and when they get to the decoy they bark, some group train with bark for a reward toy like a ball, pure sport, some group train with what it should be, aggression bark, you move and I will bite the crap out of you, so with the latter, you will be shit up the creek if your dog find a person and bit LOL.
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Old 05-15-2016, 06:50 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Are you talking about tracking or trailing? Tracking is usually a sport and done footstep to footstep. Tracking is part of IPO work. .. Trailing is the dog following a given scent by following where ever the strongest scent falls (could be 100's of feet off the actual laid track) and air scenting is allowed if that is where the scent is.. Trailing is also an AKC sport but is predominantly used in SAR, LE and other working dog vocations..

Misty SAR teams would be hesitant to have a biting dog on their team for liability sake.
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Old 05-15-2016, 07:06 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Re: schutzhund and tracking?

I'm not sure exactly. I just want him to do something with his nose as something to work on other than the bitework and obedience, he is very very good with his nose. I was thinking about just waiting and training it so he doesn't get confused and I would treat it like a whole new behavior. I don't ever plan on tracking for anything more than mine and my dogs amusement. No real work work. I was leaning more twards finding shed antlers or searching for lost pets if he got really good. Detection maybe but I'm not sure what he would detect...
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Old 05-15-2016, 07:16 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Re: schutzhund and tracking?

Are you not doing tracking as part of your schutzhund training?
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Old 05-15-2016, 07:55 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Re: schutzhund and tracking?

The biggest issue is that in sport tracking, you are graded on the manner and style of the dog's work. Your dog is trained to be slow, methodical, working with a deep nose. In the SAR world, we don't care what the dog looks like when they are working. Most of our trailing/tracking dogs work faster and with more casting by the dog working varying distances from the actual track. If you are working on getting a title then get the title first before you opt to go over to SAR Because once the dog learns the shortcuts, you will never be able to make him unforget and you will find him taking liberties that will cost you points.
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Old 05-15-2016, 08:02 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Re: schutzhund and tracking?

I won't get into the bite trained issue as some teams allow it, some don't. However, the training does attach a liability that everybody would have to agree to.

But that doesn't mean you cannot do sar work. You will need a certain amount of training in groundwork that has nothing to do with the dog. Many people tend to start a second dog so there is nothing against have 2 dogs. One for sar and one for SCH work. The other option is to do cadaver work since there is no risk of biting a live subject. You need to review all your options.
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Old 05-15-2016, 11:08 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Re: schutzhund and tracking?

I was involved with SAR before I went into Schutzhund and I can tell from personal experience that switching from "real" tracking to sport tracking was a big PIA.

I don't believe it would be the same with sport tracking started first since, at one time many early police dogs in this country came from Europe with Schutzhund tracking.

It's a good foundation for "real" work but SAR tracking/trailing is not a good foundation for sport tracking.

Also, as said above, few SAR groups will allow dogs that have had bite work.
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Old 05-16-2016, 08:57 AM   #9 (permalink)
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I agree with Sarah and Bob. Trailing is natural for the dog but tracking via footstep to footstep all the time, is not... But since you are looking to do something for fun you don't have to worry You will develop a really strong bond with your dog doing nose work stuff and learn how to read your dog even better, especially if doing trailing of some sort..
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Old 05-16-2016, 06:37 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Re: schutzhund and tracking?

What are everyone's thoughts on how well a dog can contextualize between the different circumstances? I understand how it would be difficult to move to sport tracking if a dog already has a strong foundation in SAR. But what if a young dog is started in both and wears a reflective vest every time he does SAR type work but not in sport tracking? He'll quickly learn that the vest means a specific task and will fall into that behaviour when wearing it. Couple that with the fact that schutzhund tracking could be considered more of an obedience routine and has an overall different picture.... can the lines be made clear? Or will they always be blurry? Will the dog always opt for the shortcut (more instinctive IMO) SAR style type of nosework?

This has been on my mind lately as I also wish to do both with my future puppy and can't decide what to do for foundation work.
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