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PSD's tracking for the ball.
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Old 02-20-2015, 01:20 AM   #41 (permalink)
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Re: PSD's tracking for the ball.

I get the concept for a sport application but truly, the notion of tracking "too fast" is ridiculous to me. In my opinion, sport tracking isn't about teaching the dog to use it's nose (more or less). I maintain that position because my dutch can follow a naturally laid track and with remarkable accuracy. I never taught her that. I think, more correctly stated, is that sport tracking teaches the dog to track within specific behavioral constraints and in some cases requires the dog to suppress/control, whatever you want to call it, what otherwise might come naturally to the dog.
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Old 02-20-2015, 08:00 AM   #42 (permalink)
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Re: PSD's tracking for the ball.

re : "I get the concept for a sport application but truly, the notion of tracking "too fast" is ridiculous to me. In my opinion, sport tracking isn't about teaching the dog to use it's nose (more or less). I maintain that position because my dutch can follow a naturally laid track and with remarkable accuracy."
*** bingo !
- usually your posts are so abstract and esoteric they go right over my head but i like this comment a lot. BZ

re : "sport tracking teaches the dog to track within specific behavioral constraints"
- u lost me on "behavioural constraints"
... do you mean sport tracking has rules the dog and handler must follow in order to get the max number of points ?

i think a dog "tracking too fast" is not ridiculous in many situations, and this thread was not started to discuss sport tracking

still wish Phil had jumped back in.

when you mix sport tracking with PSD tracking i think u are mixing too many varieties of apples

anyway, was there ever a consensus on best ways to train PSD tracking, reward wise, or was it a "get a big toolbox and use em all when u think they will work" ??
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Old 02-20-2015, 09:31 AM   #43 (permalink)
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Re: PSD's tracking for the ball.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicole Stark View Post
I get the concept for a sport application but truly, the notion of tracking "too fast" is ridiculous to me. In my opinion, sport tracking isn't about teaching the dog to use it's nose (more or less). I maintain that position because my dutch can follow a naturally laid track and with remarkable accuracy. I never taught her that. I think, more correctly stated, is that sport tracking teaches the dog to track within specific behavioral constraints and in some cases requires the dog to suppress/control, whatever you want to call it, what otherwise might come naturally to the dog.
In schH tracking, dogs aren't penalized for going too fast, but they are disqualified if they don't complete the track within the allotted time. The reason handlers don't want the dog tracking too fast, running down the track, is because dogs that track really fast are prone to make expensive point errors like being hectic, over shooting articles, over shooting turns, too many head checks, circling, missing articles, that sort of thing. It may seem way too persnickety to the uninitiated, but it's an extremely competitive sport and as the years have gone on the judging by necessity had to get tighter and tighter.

I agree that schH it isn't about teaching the dog how to track/use his nose, but I would think that must apply across the board to all disciplines? I mean since dogs are born with that nose, man just teaches dog what he wants him to follow or to find, (from missing persons to criminals to evidence to drugs even to regulation articles on a schH track ), what not to follow (game, etc..), how to indicate, not to quit, etc..
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Old 02-20-2015, 02:07 PM   #44 (permalink)
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Re: PSD's tracking for the ball.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rick smith View Post
re : "I get the concept for a sport application but truly, the notion of tracking "too fast" is ridiculous to me. In my opinion, sport tracking isn't about teaching the dog to use it's nose (more or less). I maintain that position because my dutch can follow a naturally laid track and with remarkable accuracy."
*** bingo !
- usually your posts are so abstract and esoteric they go right over my head but i like this comment a lot. BZ

re : "sport tracking teaches the dog to track within specific behavioral constraints"
- u lost me on "behavioural constraints"
... do you mean sport tracking has rules the dog and handler must follow in order to get the max number of points ?

i think a dog "tracking too fast" is not ridiculous in many situations, and this thread was not started to discuss sport tracking
Noted. And out this needle goes from the thread. BTW, esoteric (thanks that is my intention - to speak to my peers and direct my dialogue at a specific audience), abstract (depending upon your intended use of that word, perhaps or absolutely not).

Susan, understood. My background is in Schutzhund, I left the sport not yet a year ago. I also had the good fortune of seeing it first hand as a child and long before the attention was taken away from the dog and placed where it is today. That was my impression of Schutzhund, it never left me and probably is why I never fully embraced the idea of chasing points.

Nevertheless, back to PSDs tracking for the ball...
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Old 02-20-2015, 05:31 PM   #45 (permalink)
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Re: PSD's tracking for the ball.

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Originally Posted by Nicole Stark View Post
Noted. And out this needle goes from the thread. BTW, esoteric (thanks that is my intention - to speak to my peers and direct my dialogue at a specific audience), abstract (depending upon your intended use of that word, perhaps or absolutely not).

Susan, understood. My background is in Schutzhund, I left the sport not yet a year ago. I also had the good fortune of seeing it first hand as a child and long before the attention was taken away from the dog and placed where it is today. That was my impression of Schutzhund, it never left me and probably is why I never fully embraced the idea of chasing points.

Nevertheless, back to PSDs tracking for the ball...
I know what you mean....I've been in and out since 1981. I'm out now for going on 3 years since I moved up here, so you're more in tune with it than I am.

....and back to PSDs tracking for balls!
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Old 02-20-2015, 11:16 PM   #46 (permalink)
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Re: PSD's tracking for the ball.

Rick said

"when you mix sport tracking with PSD tracking i think u are mixing too many varieties of apples"


I can agree with that to a point.

I think sport type tracking can be a foundation for real world tracking "IF" it is done first.

I started in SAR with my older GSD. He was/is a natural using his nose but going from real life tracking/trailing to sport tracking was initially a PIA.

If the track he was on happened to be down wind of the article he would just take off for the article.

He's even gone as far as leaving the whole track if he scented an article from another person laid track.

Same with corners. he saw no use in making a 90 degree corner if he scented the next leg from where he was at. Get to the end of a leg and his head went up and he would air scent.

My observations on this

Real world tracking/training meant he could use the ground, the shrubs, the air. Anything that got him to the subject so why bother using ground scent only.

It took a while and he never flunked me in sport tracking through his III.

Start a dog in sport tracking and when switching to "real" scent work a dog will rarely fail in using all available scent when available.
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Old 02-21-2015, 05:18 AM   #47 (permalink)
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Re: PSD's tracking for the ball.

I should have said training the dog to use its nose as I want it to, i.e. following the track precisely and indicating the articles correctly.

As for "chasing points", Schutzhund or IPO as it has been called for a good few years, has always been about this. Most people enter a trial to win.

Schutzhund trials go back to the 1920's.
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Old 02-21-2015, 06:16 AM   #48 (permalink)
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Re: PSD's tracking for the ball.

Agree with Bob's last post,I have done it with last PSD.It gives the dog a better ''track sureness''.He will resort to air scenting if needed ,but will have the concentration for harder tracks such as hard surface urban tracks.
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