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PSD's tracking for the ball.
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Old 02-09-2015, 09:16 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Re: PSD's tracking for the ball.

I dont train PSD actively.

I have seen this done with dogs both mali type and GSD in very initial stages.

I have seen finished working dogs that started like this.

The dogs were of course switched to similar methods as described, quarry run off's..bite...no bite...

The dogs worked fine, and were successful in the field.

I cant see it making a huge difference with a good dog, and correct training after doing it.. once the biting starts, toys tend to take a back seat if dogs are man-focused.

I can see it being a detriment for sure with a certain type of dog, and/or incomplete training.

I personally think when I have seen it, it was done because it was easier to do, and there was a lack of help.

On a personal note I trained my last personal dog this way, for fun way to start tracking/trailing and it had zero impact on the tracking and finding/biting/fighting decoys when I started training with the Local PD Handlers a year later..but that dog really loved to fight....
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Old 02-09-2015, 09:38 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Re: PSD's tracking for the ball.

I could be wrong about this, but the difference the trainer is seeing in the Mal v. GSD could actually be foundation training the dogs have had prior to purchase. Chances are the GSD's have had some food tracks done IPO style and the Mals haven't. So their initial behavior towards a track could be different and he may be reading it wrong?

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Old 02-09-2015, 11:33 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Re: PSD's tracking for the ball.

Worked with a dutchie about 2 months ago that had only been trained to track with a bite at the end and boy was it a frantic tracker.

I've known a few dutchies used for SAR that get a toy at the end and much much calmer tracker.

But never watched the entire training process with any of the dogs so there are probably other factors that are a part of it.
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Old 02-09-2015, 11:48 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Re: PSD's tracking for the ball.

Involved with SAR and GSDs for a few yrs and it was always with a kong/ball rewarded by the person being found.

With a Mal in particular in you case Phil, I see a ball crazy dog that just may look for a ball as opposed to the bite.

If started this way I think it would be imperative the dog be weaned off the ball onto the bite quickly.

Obviously that can vary from dog to dog and more so, the proper training or lack of it.

All JMHO having never being involved in criminal man tracking.
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Old 02-10-2015, 02:43 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Re: PSD's tracking for the ball.

how can you judge a training step without knowing the entire training process involved ?

training is rarely breed specific and breed dependent

looks like this is what is being said
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Old 02-10-2015, 07:24 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Re: PSD's tracking for the ball.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rick smith View Post
training is rarely breed specific and breed dependent
So you can reliably train all or even most bloodhounds with bites at the end of the track? Maybe those that actually work and own bloodhounds can correct me but I doubt many if any could be trained that way.

There absolutely are breed specific general rules. Not to say they are set in stone but to try one method across all breeds would be frustrating and unproductive.
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Old 02-10-2015, 07:38 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Re: PSD's tracking for the ball.

re : "training is rarely breed specific and breed dependent"

i stand corrected

i was speaking in general terms

the examples you pointed out are relevant Nick, and a good reason why the details are important //lol//

some learn better with food
some learn better with bites
some just want hugs and kisses
- and for some dogs all of the above can be used effectively at various levels of training......and this can apply to many breeds

is that any more believable ?
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Old 02-10-2015, 07:53 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Re: PSD's tracking for the ball.

anyway....

do we have members who imprint/train young dogs for PSD jobs ?

sounds more like a Q for PSD breeders and/or vendors ?

haven't read posts from those folks in awhile
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Old 02-10-2015, 12:21 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Re: PSD's tracking for the ball.

I spoke to the trainer more in detail this morning. Once he has the dog solid on basic tracks on the handler,he immediately switches to the other handlers in the class laying the track for the team in the same manner for a couple of days. He then starts laying tracks out of sight. Toward the end of the class he starts allowing the dogs to get an occasional bite, not as many bites to no bites as I taught him however. he also eliminates the ball asap.

Personally I don't care to train Mali's or Dutchies for PSD work for several reasons. In 38 years of working and training PSD's I only find Shepherds and if forced to purchase will train my students only with Shepherds. The style of tracking I teach, no human can stay up with either breed on an off lead track.
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Old 02-10-2015, 03:34 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Re: PSD's tracking for the ball.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Dodson View Post
Personally I don't care to train Mali's or Dutchies for PSD work for several reasons.
Do mind sharing what those reasons are? I'm just curious.
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