PSD's tracking for the ball. - Working Dog Forum
Welcome to the Working Dog Forum.
Header



Working Dog Forum » Work Specific Discussion » Tracking » PSD's tracking for the ball.

Tracking All styles of tracking can be discussed here.


Reply
tcat left
PSD's tracking for the ball.
vBmenu Seperating Image LinkBack Thread Tools vBmenu Seperating Image Display Modes vBmenu Seperating Image
Old 02-09-2015, 11:31 AM   #1 (permalink)
Bit the Handler
 
Phil Dodson's Avatar
 
Status: Senior Member
Training: Police K9
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Enterprise, Al.
Posts: 611
PSD's tracking for the ball.

I recently was invited to observe a patrol dog class in a neighboring town. I arrived at 06:00 AM and observed the 6 dog class in a large grassy field, all were malinois. The handlers were laying their own tracks and placing a ball at the end of the track, returning to their dogs, waiting a few minutes, then conducting the track.

When speaking to the trainer he said that with the Malinois he found they will concentrate better doing initial tracking this way compared to Shepherds who he starts out using a quarry as I taught him several years ago.

Your opinions on imprinting PSD's this way. I have always started out using a quarry alternating bite, no bite. I believe a man should always be at the end of the track as that is what the dog is supposed to be looking for, not a ball or toy.
Phil Dodson is offline   Reply With Quote

Please Register!
Please visit our Sponsor

Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 02-09-2015, 12:20 PM   #2 (permalink)
Landshark
 
Status: Senior Member
Training: Search & Rescue
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Southeast Virginia
Posts: 1,756
Re: PSD's tracking for the ball.

My question is since we know that not every track ends in a bite would this not fall under a variable reward system? Not disagreeing with having a human at the end. Just with always expecting a bite.
__________________
-You can lead a human to knowledge but you can't make it think.
-Some people's minds are like concrete. All mixed up & permanently set.
-Sometimes your knight in shining armour is just a retard in tin foil.
Sarah Platts is offline   Reply With Quote

Please Register!
Old 02-09-2015, 12:56 PM   #3 (permalink)
Bit the Handler
 
Phil Dodson's Avatar
 
Status: Senior Member
Training: Police K9
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Enterprise, Al.
Posts: 611
Re: PSD's tracking for the ball.

Yes, with the quarry surrendering or out of reach or with a bite.
Phil Dodson is offline   Reply With Quote

Please Register!
Old 02-09-2015, 01:45 PM   #4 (permalink)
Broke the Bark Collar
 
Howard Knauf's Avatar
 
Status: Super Moderator
Training: Police K9
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Melbourne, Florida
Posts: 3,301
Re: PSD's tracking for the ball.

I train it Phil's way except I use two different commands. One is a slow, low "Suuuuuuuk" for no bite. The other is an energetic "Suuk! Find the man!" for a bite. During the track I reinforce what I want by occasionally giving the proper command. The reward always matches the given command and there is always a human at the end. We use our dogs for SAR as well as apprehension so it's a good exercise to train. It doesn't take them long to differentiate between the two. Now, the no bite track will end in a tug or toy but there's always someone there. This is one of the very very few times I'll use a toy in training.
__________________
https://spacecoasttactical.com
Howard Knauf is offline   Reply With Quote

Please Register!
Old 02-09-2015, 02:22 PM   #5 (permalink)
Bit the Handler
 
Phil Dodson's Avatar
 
Status: Senior Member
Training: Police K9
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Enterprise, Al.
Posts: 611
Re: PSD's tracking for the ball.

Sarah I track exclusively off the lead. I only track serious misdemeanors or felony tracks so I want my partner always thinking there is possible combat at the end of the track.

All lost persons, Alzheimer patients, etc; are done by our neighboring County's Bloodhounds.
Phil Dodson is offline   Reply With Quote

Please Register!
Old 02-09-2015, 02:38 PM   #6 (permalink)
Landshark
 
Status: Senior Member
Training: Search & Rescue
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Southeast Virginia
Posts: 1,756
Re: PSD's tracking for the ball.

Thanks for clarifying, Phil. In your case, it makes sense. For this patrol dog class are they doing the same work - strictly felony and no MP cases?

Out of curiosity, what percentage of your tracks actually do end at a person?
__________________
-You can lead a human to knowledge but you can't make it think.
-Some people's minds are like concrete. All mixed up & permanently set.
-Sometimes your knight in shining armour is just a retard in tin foil.
Sarah Platts is offline   Reply With Quote

Please Register!
Old 02-09-2015, 02:38 PM   #7 (permalink)
Broke the Bark Collar
 
Nicole Stark's Avatar
 
Status: Senior Member
Training: Don't Train My Dog
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Alaska
Posts: 4,803
Re: PSD's tracking for the ball.

Phil, I hope you don't mind me commenting - it's really more just me thinking out loud.

Did you happen to observe the finished product or if not, what was your impression (aside from your personal bias) of what the initial tracking behavior looked like with these dogs in comparision to the way you prefer to teaach it?

Just curious.
__________________
Do Not Disturb
Nicole Stark is offline   Reply With Quote

Please Register!
Old 02-09-2015, 04:36 PM   #8 (permalink)
Ate the Tug
 
Nick Hrycaj's Avatar
 
Status: Member
Training: Police K9
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 186
What's the training build up to get down the track from start to quarry? Food? Articles? Run offs?
Nick Hrycaj is offline   Reply With Quote

Please Register!
Old 02-09-2015, 06:36 PM   #9 (permalink)
Bit the Handler
 
Phil Dodson's Avatar
 
Status: Senior Member
Training: Police K9
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Enterprise, Al.
Posts: 611
Re: PSD's tracking for the ball.

Nicole I should have worded my original post different. I wanted to know if anybody else used this method particularly with Malinois. I can't be bias as I have not seen a finished dog using his method.
I use runaways originally giving a bite as the reward.
Phil Dodson is offline   Reply With Quote

Please Register!
Old 02-09-2015, 06:57 PM   #10 (permalink)
Landshark
 
Status: Senior Member
Training: Search & Rescue
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Southeast Virginia
Posts: 1,756
Re: PSD's tracking for the ball.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Dodson View Post
When speaking to the trainer he said that with the Malinois he found they will concentrate better doing initial tracking this way compared to Shepherds who he starts out using a quarry as I taught him several years ago.
Just as an observation, perhaps the Mals are to mentally frantic (being all wrapped up in the bite) that using a toy is just a means to prevent the dog from getting to hyped up that would interfere with the initial beginning of learning to track. You indicate that the trainer does it initially but does he ever switch over to human only at the end of the track for these Mals?
__________________
-You can lead a human to knowledge but you can't make it think.
-Some people's minds are like concrete. All mixed up & permanently set.
-Sometimes your knight in shining armour is just a retard in tin foil.
Sarah Platts is offline   Reply With Quote

Please Register!
Reply



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:04 PM.


 

SEO by vBSEO 3.2.0 RC5