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Food vs article driven track method
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Old 10-26-2014, 05:54 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Re: Food vs article driven track method

Nick;

All I did was buy Steve White's HITT DVD's from http://www.tawzerdog.com Everything you need to know about how to run the system is on the DVD's.

The premise is the same as what Sarah was explaining. Dog's will revert to their foundation training much like humans under stress. If we start a dog on vegetation, when he reaches hard surface he will have a more difficult time tracking (if he can do it at all under stress) than a dog who was started on hard surface to begin with.

The HITT system has you using food to teach nose down behavior... the water acts as an adhesive to hold down the scent on the asphalt. As the dog progresses, the food drops are spaced until they are non-existent. Then the water spray begins to be faded out.

Once the dog is tracking without water on asphalt, then concrete is introduced with only spray.... then again, the spray is faded. Then gravel, then dirt, and finally grass. The idea is to teach the dog that there is scent to be smelled on the least porous surface... and then go to more porous surfaces.

I will try to grab a video this week of our basic class tracking... they are starting week 5 and most are doing hard surface tracks without any spray at all.... tracks that dogs on the street with 8 years would have a hard time with.
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Old 10-26-2014, 08:28 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Re: Food vs article driven track method

Mel I had not heard of the TTD/ rmcp system but just reading it at face value makes it sound like a valuable program. Leerbergs assessment is likely valid in that it take a very special and proper dog to succeed with TTD. No harm in starting there and trying a different method if that one in particular is not suitable.

Sarah, thanks for the videos. Ill take a look when I can

Matt thanks for the link
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Old 10-27-2014, 03:21 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Re: Food vs article driven track method

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Hrycaj View Post
it takes a very special and proper dog to succeed with TTD.
I would also argue that it takes a very proper (and special) dog to truly succeed as a police K9.
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Old 10-27-2014, 04:15 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Re: Food vs article driven track method

In my experience it takes a special dog to do any detection discipline at police level.
No point in doing it with anything less.
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Old 10-28-2014, 06:19 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Re: Food vs article driven track method

I have written about this before.

My 8 week-old pup put his nose to the ground instead of searching me with his eyes. My husband noted this when I had walked away from them (pup and OH).

He did this when we stopped to talk to someone in our little village and they moved away. The pup put his nose down to the asphalt pavement and attempted to follow them.

It was this that decided me to lay a very short track - 10 m - with some kibble at the end of it and collect the pup and walk past it. If he started to work it out ok, if not, I would carry on walking with him.

He stopped at the track, sniffed and followed it to the end.

I afterwards used low-smelling kibble as I was not up to my pup's Standards and I used the kibble as Feedback.
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Old 10-28-2014, 11:45 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Re: Food vs article driven track method

Nick, just something to think about. I was asking these same questions four years ago and I will share my experience real quick.

Had a 3 year old mal that already had tracking on him ( not sure which method they used) and he was solid on vegetation but terrible on hard surface, plus he tried to run every track. I went to a seminar and learned the HITT method and trained him for two months using that method. My result was he slowed down and tracked very nice on hard surface until my next real life apprehension. It was like starting all over teaching hard surface again. Due to apprehensions, I was unable to keep the HITT method effectively imprinted on him.

Got a shepherd for second dog and timeline for training was cut short so HITT was pout the window for this dog. I bought a book by Kris Kristopolous about tracking. Kris uses articles and tracks article to article. I felt this was best course of action given the timeline for my training. It turned out to be very nice and the transfer to hard surface using articles has been painless. I like the method and it has paid off on the road. (Alerted to articles that were critical to the case).

Hope some of this helps
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Old 10-28-2014, 02:28 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Re: Food vs article driven track method

Robbie thanks for the feedback. I want to train from scratch but I have quite the internal battle over changing my current street dog's training too. Battle is over the same two steps forwards five steps back issue your mentioning.

I ran a practice track with my working dog today and let him run the way I invision tracking thru drive is to work. It was mixed surface 400 yards, strong breeze, and "lucky" a lady and dog accidentally set a parallel track till near the end. II was astounded how fast and focused Glock was and how easily I noticed his negatives when my decoy kept turning anf crossing an irrigation ditch. I will take it slow and steady if I do start to change my trainging but it was cool to watch
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Old 10-30-2014, 09:08 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Re: Food vs article driven track method

Baby steps on the finding small articles -

Are most people using metal? nails, washers, etc.

Do you verbally mark the article as the dog passes over it then reward the nose to article then eventually tie to it the final response of a down as you might for narcotics?

What about when the dog does not quite get it and is just offering behaviors? Do you verbally correct or redirect or just wait them out like a false indication in dope work?
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Old 10-30-2014, 01:50 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Re: Food vs article driven track method

[QUOTE=Nick Hrycaj;639409]Are most people using metal? nails, washers, etc.QUOTE]

If you don't mind Nick, I'd like to add a question to this. Regardless of what is being used I've often wondered, what, if any, issues tend to crop up with dogs that are possessive? I've used a number of items as articles, one was a small rubber o ring which the dog promptly ate when she saw me approach. I figured maybe she'd have less interest in a shot glass after that. Wrong.
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Old 11-05-2014, 03:15 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Re: Food vs article driven track method

I don't know if Nick ever got an answer to his questions but I want to clarify something because I've gotten a few PMs on what I posted above. My dog did not eat or swallow the shot glass. It also didn't break or crack. I was however, schooled a bit on underestimating her determination to get and keep something that she has or wants. She indicated on the "article" and things went well enough, until I started to approach her...

With that said I am still curious about what I asked. There's got to be a more balanced approach. I'm just not exactly sure what it is. I don't want her eating small articles for starters. So start big? Or bigger. I did that. Same thing with the glass happened. So instead I used 3x4" pieces of formica on a hard surface. The attempt on her part was the same as I approached but since she couldn't get hold of it as quickly I was able to step on it and just restarted the exercise from that position and her from a different one. That worked.

My thought is to stay close, use different articles until I get what I want (without conflict) and then start adding distance while keeping her on a line. This seems to be a logical approach to me. I suppose if it's not, someone here might say so and suggest something else.
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