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Old 03-09-2016, 12:50 AM   #21 (permalink)
Broke the Bark Collar
 
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Re: crating

- i feel a harness secured to the seat (doggy seatbelt) is safer than a crate placed in the car, even if it is wedged into a space that doesn't allow much movement
- lots to choose from; some are much better constructed than others
- i think the only reason people don't use them more often is because they are more of a PITA to set up correctly and use compared to loading a crate in the vehicle

there has been some testing done, but i haven't seen any definitive tests that would confirm crates are less likely to trap a dog in a collision and make it harder to get them out

there are a good quality barriers to keep a dog out of the front seat, and a LOT of poor quality barriers on the market. I figure the PITA factor to construct and install probably keeps a lot of people from using them. i did a LOT of research on modifying my new van and finally gave it up as "too hard".
- in my opinion, to be good they need to be designed as an option when the vehicle is made

not trying to be sarcastic or sound like a broken record, but for a vehicle as well as in the home, training reduces the need for a crate
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Old 03-09-2016, 12:56 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Re: crating

for those who have a PPD, how do you transport it in a vehicle ?
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Old 03-09-2016, 09:02 PM   #23 (permalink)
Ankle Biter
 
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Re: crating

Here are tests are harnesses:
http://www.centerforpetsafety.org/te...h-test-videos/

And tests on crates:
http://www.centerforpetsafety.org/te...study-results/

FYI
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Old 03-09-2016, 09:34 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Re: crating

Karin
based on those links why do you feel crating is necessary as compared to harnesses ?
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Old 03-09-2016, 09:40 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Re: crating

Karin
one of the problems i saw in the testing is that there is no safety standard for dogs. they are compared with child restraints and dogs are not four legged kids

"Because standardized testing does not exist for this class of pet product, we used a test generally referenced by some canine safety harness manufacturers, the Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard (FMVSS) 213 for child restraint systems."

which crate did you decide on using ?
what kind of vehicle is it installed in ?
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Old 03-09-2016, 10:10 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Re: crating

i support what CPS is doing and like many advocacy organisations their intentions are commendable.

but even with staff who have some knowledge of biomecanics, restraining a human in a seat is a far different situation than restraining a canine.
dogs don't sit like humans. their spinal column doesn't line up the same way. using the child restraint analogy, no one would put a child in a crate in a vehicle and consider them safe in a collision. that's kinda how i feel about putting a dog in one

a crate secured to a floor looks great on paper. a box within a box, etc
it might reduce the severity if you are looking at it as a missile hazard of the dog bouncing around, but there are other factors involved that they didn't consider. what prevents them from being tossed around in the box, and the stronger the box the more impact inside it, etc ??

since the vehicle itself is already designed to withstand impacts, i would rather focus on a better way to secure the dog rather than just put it in a box in the car
- if you follow the seatbelt restraint school of thought and focus on better ways to support a canine body i think you will get more dogs secured in vehicles
- the "pita" and convenience factor will always be a determining factor in whether the safety device will or won't be used. That, plus cost and a well secured anchored crate is a major expense compared to a harness/belt assembly. the path of least resistance is often guide by cost

and i will admit to being a violator on many occasions. i've even carried dogs with me on my Harley //LOL//
- took two trips yesterday to the Navy base (8 min drive) and didn't secure my dog in the van on either one

anywho....that's how i've looked at the issue

be glad to discuss the links more ... please give us your review of them
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Old 03-09-2016, 10:40 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Re: crating

Another HUGE factor in those tests are the size of the dog.

In child car seats they have weight and height regulations of when a child is ready for a seat/shoulder belt.

Those few stuffed dogs can hardly represent the size/weight variables in dogs.

A crate would/should at least be used according to the dog's size.......and be firmly be secured of course.

I think the bottom line is use whatever your most comfortable with.
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Last edited by Bob Scott; 03-09-2016 at 11:12 PM..
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Old 03-09-2016, 11:20 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Re: crating

since i don't think anyone would ever consider padding the inside of a crate, and the strong ones i've seen are alluminum or steel, where is the protection for the dog ?

maybe i'm being too narrow minded. the car itself is a secure box designed to withstand a certain level of impact. why do you need another smaller box inside of it ? all the crate does is reduce the 'air time' when an unsecured dog is being tossed around in it during a collision, correct ?
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Old 03-09-2016, 11:32 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Re: crating

Rick, my thought on that would be distance traveled inside the car as opposed to using either the safety harness or the crate.

The smaller the dog the quicker it would be launched and a large dog is more mass being slammed against the dash, windshield, etc.

Even in my small Pontiac Vibe a small dog thrown 8ft isn't going to end well.

Yep, occasionally I drive with my two loose in the car. My vet is less then a mile from the house and I find it to much effort to jamb the to crates in there for short trips.

My JRT use to race around the inside of my big conversion van like one of those carnival motorcycles in the cage.
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Old 03-09-2016, 11:41 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Re: crating

Bob
i'm comparing crates vs a harness/belt combo; not a crate vs being loose

hell yes we are all guilty of just tossing the dog in the car. especially for short trips ....where, i've read, most accidents occur
guilty as charged

didn't expect any PPD responders to my Q
but as you probably know we have had those types here who think a PPD should always be available to 'defend' and a crate would, to a large part, defeat that ...yada yada
- i was mostly curious to see whether PSA/PPD trainers like Khoi teach their club members about the trade off of having their PPD dog always ready to defend a carjack vs their safety in a vehicle .... they are opposite objectives and you gotta make a choice
- talk is easy but the real world is different
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