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Old 03-06-2016, 10:38 AM   #1 (permalink)
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crating

is 100% not necessary unless it is necessary. (to have the life and to achieve the goals you want)
to some people it is NECESSARY (like me)

dogs and people vary greatly,

I can think of lots of reasons not to crate and lots of reasons to crate.

question is this how much time and effort does one want or need to put into 1 dog? and also how much time does and effort one need to put into 1 dog

I have zero issues if one likes to spend every waking moment bonding, training and playing with their dog(s) if thats what they want to do.

I also have zero issues with kennel or crated dogs that may get a lot less time with their owners.

it depends on the people and dogs as to what happens during the time together...how beneficial that time and effort it, and for what reasons it is considered beneficial at all.
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Old 03-06-2016, 11:31 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Re: crating

for sure each situation is different. lifestyles have a big effect
i realize they can be a necessity at times

i look at crates as a short term tool rather than a way to live with the dog and manage it. as a tool to reach an end, which is a dog i can live with that needs minimal if any time in a crate

i run across a lot of people who use crates because they were told to, not because they have a plan on how to use it. sorta like, "when i have time, the dog comes out and when i don't, it gets crated"
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Old 03-06-2016, 11:37 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Re: crating

i also think crating can cause bad issues as well as fix problems

which is kinda why i think they should be looked at as tools rather than a way to keep a dog
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Old 03-06-2016, 11:52 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Re: crating

Quote:
Originally Posted by rick smith View Post
i also think crating can cause bad issues as well as fix problems
Such as?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rick smith
which is kinda why i think they should be looked at as tools rather than a way to keep a dog
Tools as compared to what and what for? What else would they be used for outside of confinement or potty training?
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Old 03-06-2016, 11:56 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Re: crating

i look at kenneling and crating as two separate issues completely; not one and the same

at least for me, when i hear crate, i think of a movable box inside a house and a kennel as a permanent outdoor enclosure for the dog(s)
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Old 03-06-2016, 01:45 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Re: crating

would it seem weird to compare a crate to a lead ?

i think they can be compared.
crate - fixed point
lead - movable
i use a lead indoors a LOT when i train with someone. a lot of people think leads are only for outdoor use. many had never considered using a lead indoors

i feel a lead can be just as effective as a crate, and in some instances get quicker results. or maybe i'm just a lead freak
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Old 03-06-2016, 01:49 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Re: crating

since i feel a bond is built outside a crate, i'm still interested to hear specifically how a crate is used to build the bond

that was the original question raised by Shelle regarding crating
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Old 03-06-2016, 02:07 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Re: crating

Joby....re: "I have zero issues if one likes to spend every waking moment bonding, training and playing with their dog(s) if thats what they want to do"

hope you weren't referring to me //LOL//
when my current dog is inside the house i prefer to ignore him and he seems to like ignoring me too
.....when i get ready to leave it's a different matter tho

seriously ... if a dog learns that all fun happens outside, it seems to help minimize the need to crate. would you agree with that ?
(the house is a big crate philosophy)

- is it necessary for your lifestyle because you are gone a lot or because the dog is too active when you are home ?
- do you crate when you are home or just when you are not home ?
...i'm seriously interested; not trying to argue the point
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Old 03-06-2016, 03:09 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Re: crating

Q : "Such as ?"

some bad issues with customers iíve seen, that appeared to have been made worse by crating
1. chewing on furniture. mini bull terrier was chewing on furniture. mostly table legs. owners had been told to crate the dog. they did that and gave the dog a kong when they put it in the crate because if they didnít it would bark too much for them. dog was quiet and chewed on the kong. but when the dog was let out of the crate it chewed on table legs even more
2. aggresion to visitors. shiba was automatically crated when visitors came over. owners had been advised to crate the dog when visitors came to the house, so they bought a crate and used it. when visitors left and the dog was let out owners reported the dog would go straight to family members and nip at them
3. gsd was crated while wife was out of the house. spinning in the crate seemed to be the reason the dog damaged its tail

it might be worth discussing how they might have done things differently, but i see it as a crate making undesirable issues worse. for me they are examples of thinking a crate would solve problems and how it tended to make owners ignore the root problem rather than using a crate as a tool

sure - maybe it's not the crate itself. maybe it's handler error. don't want to argue whether it's the chicken or the egg //LOL//
- to me, more like management vs training. training should be hands on. the more management, the less training. that's been my experience
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Old 03-06-2016, 03:35 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Re: crating

I agree with Joby and I also agree with rick, especially this bit:

"seriously ... if a dog learns that all fun happens outside, it seems to help minimize the need to crate. would you agree with that ?
(the house is a big crate philosophy)"

However I don't practice that, mostly because the weather here is absolute shite
I use crates mostly because of the number of dogs here and because almost always at least on of them is a puppy. I have however been thinking of losing the crates and just using beds as I now have a big room completely dedicated to the dogs. I think I am going to try it out as unless I am training a dog the doors are all open anyway.

One problem I have that is exacerbated by crates is my dopes chewing their beds. If they have just beds, which they have had in the past no problem, put them in a crate and the bed gets shredded. This is not uncommon in dobes I have heard. I don't think it's an anxiety issue but rather a frustration issue.

TBH I hate crates, makes me feel like a jailer but if I had only one dog I would still use a crate as required, probably "required" would be much less than now as fights can turn serious quite fast because of the nature of the dogs here and a single dog can't fight itself, although I'm pretty sure an EBT could find a way. put simply I use crates purely for management and only because it is necessary.
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