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what's a social butterfly ?

8K views 53 replies 11 participants last post by  Matt Vandart 
#1 ·
this term gets used a lot on here and usually it's considered something negative and NOT wanted.....for a 'working dog'

starters :
1. what is your definition ?
2. how is it bad or good ?
3. is it (mostly) a trained behavior or genetic ? (i know it's usually a combo of both)

got my own defs and opinions of course, but would rather hear from others first to see if it's worth discussing and not start debates :)

everyone should have an opinion here, so maybe some lurkers will join in :)
 
#2 ·
A Golden Retreiver.

If I compare my dogs, a Malinois and a Dutch Shepherd to my friend's Golden, I see a scale of sociability. The Golden loves everyone, is instantly your best friend and will actively solicit (annoyingly to me, but others are charmed by his friendliness) pets and attention. My Mal seems to enjoy some attention from strangers, and will move towards kids and people to be petted, but is mostly interested in me. The Dutch is only interested in people to see if they have something for her - a toy, cookie or bite sleeve. She instantly loses interest if they don't.

My preference is for a more social than not dog because that makes my life easier and requires less management on my part. Both are retired from bite sports and in the other activities we were doing, there were far more opportunities for interaction with strangers, who are not always respectful of a dog's personal space.

I haven't done anything special to either promote or discourage any of my dogs social tendencies, and suspect that it is mostly genetic.
 
#3 ·
I would agree with Leslie's post and idea... I had a female GSD who loved everyone... usually because they got suckered into playing with her (she would bring trash, a cigarette butt (not mine) anything, for them to throw..eww..but that was how she was... Born that way... My other GSD's were of various levels.. most would give a 'hi' when told to and suffer the pets, most did not seek out attention except from those deemed in the 'pack.' Our team has many goldens and they love everyone.. Seek out attention from anyone, just for love and pets - nothing else (unless you want to give it to them).. 'social butterfly'

My current girl is on the opposite spectrum.. She does not seek attention out from anyone except me and her 'loved ones' and she is picky about who they are. She is neutral around people unless they get too forward and desire to pet her before she says it is ok... Once it is 'ok' she is totally cool with it, but does not usually seek it out unless they got moved into the 'loved ones' category... So definitely not a 'scoial butterfly'

Being in SAR, I think I prefer the middle category dog.. Aloof, but willing to say "hi" and suffer the minstrations of those needy individuals who have to pet every dog around... Truly makes my dog easier, because my girls bark is so deep and menacing sounding (even when she is not) people automatically assume she is evil and out to kill them... Probably why she gave the (singular) bark anyways, but then I have to explain etc... I, am not, a social butterfly ;)
 
#4 · (Edited)
My current partner is a hand slut. He loves everyone to a point that it's annoying. I'm not a big fan of this. I like my dogs to be indifferent to other people but he is what he is. My co workers can't believe he would bite someone, yet he just got another one the other night. Now, in training he is hard on decoys but his real street contacts leave a little to be desired as compared to my previous partners who quite enjoyed making bad guys pay dearly for their crimes. I am chalking it up to my failure in the training. Tonight I'm going to start training him to push into the bite instead of his pulling. The guy the other night had baggy clothes on so I'm gonna make an excuse here but I think training the push will fix that problem.
 
#7 ·
BWHAHAHAHWAHA!! and he said it on national woman's day or whatever the hell today was supposed to be about or for. LOL Howard, I think your hand slut reference qualifies as my favorite comment ever on the WDF!!

Ah, what can I say I am easily amused.

Back on topic, my input = basically what everyone else said.
 
#6 ·
I joke about my GSD Trooper as having a "Golden Retriever" slip in the pedigree somehow because he is quite friendly with most anyone. He'll be ten in May and still acts like a six month old Golden pup. PIA in my book!

My now passed GSD Thunder was "my" ideal dog.

Will put up with people's attention IF I'm present but never solicits or tolerates it on his own unless he really know you.
 
#9 ·
Well, the push training went pretty good. More to do though. He's still a whore. It's not gonna change. He's so easy that any other handler can do perfect OB with him right in front of me. Total cuckhold.](*,)](*,)
 
#10 ·
My youngest is a pure body contact queen. He wants and craves close attention. Even if he had the ability to crawl inside your skin that would not be close enough.
 
#11 ·
why i started this thread with 3 simple Q's
- i wanted to discuss the issue beyond what's already obvious :-(

full rant will come later...still hoping some new members or lurkers might contribute since for me it's an issue that is all too common in the dog world

but for starters, here's a clip from my full response :
....."i define a social butterfly as a dog who wants to approach and interact with almost everyone it sees without showing any aggression in the process. what it 'wants’ from other people is only a PART of my definition; whether it's getting pets, begging for treats, getting handling, finding a backdrop for a body slam, finding a new face to lick, finding a ball tosser for a game of fetch….whatever."
 
#13 ·
I prefer a social butterfly as you can train it to see people as furniture if you want. I have three anti social asshats in my house, ranging from full asbo to ignorant prick. This is relating to people outside the majik circle.
My house dogs are all social butterflies which I like as it makes people visiting easier. All the dogs in my yard have been "socialized" in exactly the same way, I think it is very much genetic.
Tilly the doberman is an asshat, her full belly sister is a socially competent unit which would suggest it not being genetic but they don't have the same genes so who knows. I'm putting my money on genetic though as digga spent his first 7 weeks in a pig shed with no human contact other than the breeder old school style and Luna in a garage the same, both are socially and environmentally bomb proof, but both have the advantage of being bull types.
 
#14 ·
I vote genetics!

I recall my doctor saying that given the enormous number of genes in the human body it's almost a miracle that brothers and sisters can look alike.

I'm one of seven kids.

We all have similar features yet have great differences in both looks and temperament/personalities.

My dad was one of 16 kids.

Everything from a priest to a murderer in there. :-o :lol:
 
#15 ·
convinced it will only be the regulars posting so i'll post mine soon.
longest post i've made because i have strong feelings about the subject

more like a mini-novel
because i drafted a few versions and refined it to cover all the bases i felt needed to be covered
.....and because i can :) and i often look at things in my own weird ways //LOL//
 
#23 ·
convinced it will only be the regulars posting so i'll post mine soon.
longest post i've made because i have strong feelings about the subject
I will echo Leslie and Nicole. We have a saying in the trailing world.... "the bullshit stops when the tailgate drops".

I'm waiting for your tailgate to drop.
 
#19 ·
this term gets used a lot on here and usually it's considered something negative and NOT wanted.....for a 'working dog'

starters :
1. what is your definition ?
2. how is it bad or good ?
3. is it (mostly) a trained behavior or genetic ? (i know it's usually a combo of both)
Personally, I think it's fine. It's just a dog that's more social, likes people. There are some social dogs that can really bring the heat when working. There are some anti-social dogs that do not love everybody that also work well and are very well-managed and trained. Some jobs may require or make more sense for one type or the other. Generally, I think a more social dog is just fine.

Is it good or bad? Not necessarily either. I like them, however I have seen more not-so-social dogs that I have also liked. If they are controllable and fit the handler's needs, it is good. Speaking in general terms, if the dog is solid and the handler is able to use it and channel the dog's energies, it makes no difference. There are probably exceptions. There are probably a good number of anti-social dogs (relatively speaking) that you would never know because they are genetically solid and well-trained to not react.

I think it is mostly genetic, with environmental factors influencing it (possibly greatly). I doubt you could make some hard ass civil working-line shepherd a social butterfly so much as train it to not destroy people invading its personal space.
 
#24 ·
in closing, and just for the record, no dog that has been described in this thread fits my definition of a social butterfly and i was surprised that everyone felt its basically genetic :)
Is that so?

Here I thought you were all done with this and then you come back with that?

In closing, and just for the record, I'm forever going to think of your typing style as the illusive "hand slut". You never know if he's coming or going. First, he gets you all worked up with, then leaves you hanging, then he comes back unable to help himself. Closer he brings the story to conclusion and then …. Shall I go on? Cause I can. :twisted:
 
#21 ·
Well, gee Rick, we all came out and played nice and answered your questions, and then you duck out of the thread you started saying you don't want to play anymore, but we're all wrong about it anyway. :roll:

If the point was to get a good discussion going, then throw out your opinion and let's have at it. Otherwise, why bother asking the questions?
 
#27 ·
Leslie : "Well, gee Rick, we all came out and played nice and answered your questions, and then you duck out of the thread you started saying you don't want to play anymore, but we're all wrong about it anyway. "

1. 'we all came out and played and answered your questions'
- really ??
one of my Q's was how do u define a social butterfly......your answer : a golden.....sorry Leslie, i don't consider that a definition by any stretch. but if you were playing, then i can understand why you might say i don't want to play :-(
2. 'you started saying you don't want to play anymore, but we're all wrong about it anyway.'
- NEVER said that but please cut/paste what i wrote that made you think that i thought you guys are ALL WRONG about it :-( :-(
- for me it's just another example of reading between the lines but not paying attention to the lines that were written
(common here on the WDF...Sarah just gave an example on another thread.......did i jump all over and slam Gina and say "you're wrong" ?)

Sarah : i can't remember reading your definition of a social butterfly either. please cut/paste again if you wrote one and refresh my memory
- actually i don't even remember reading any answers to any of my Q's ... does that mean you too were playing but i wasn't ?

and did Matt, Misty, Bob, Howard, Khoi or Nicole give a definition ? they all responded to the thread, but mostly talked about their dogs. Khoi finally jumped in too //rotflmao//

i would think ALL of the above people are perfectly capable of coming up with a definition if they really wanted to :)

i've already sent my detailed views on the topic because i was serious about discussing a common issue that i think can be misunderstood as far as the genetic component vs the aspect of a trained behavior
.....to people who asked and were serious about hearing my viewpoint

- oddly enuff, no one wrote anything about the reasons except for "genetics" side
- i am definitely NOT the smartest knife in the drawer, but no one needed to remind me there was a genetic component, and that's why i POLITELY said i wanted to get beyond the obvious and why i was surprised that aspect was never brought up
......NO WAY SHAPE OR FORM WAS I STATING OR EVEN IMPLYING THAT YOU ARE ALL WRONG :-(

amen

if you still wanna read my "mini book", PM me with serious answers to my Q's and convince me you're interested in my take on the subject and i'll be glad to shoot it to you

i'll try my best to ignore any more sarcasm here, but like a train wreck, i expect i'll read em anyway :)

sure, i often look at issues from a different perspective......but i rarely if EVER have i said anything remotely close to : "my way is the best way and you are wrong" ..... and i've posted a few thousand times on this forum !
- i can only remember taking that extreme of a view once

if anyone disagrees, then take Sarah's advice and stop the BS and quote when i have said that or even IMPLIED that...in ANY response i've ever posted
- it gets old to hear that crap, but for sure, i don't lose any sleep over it //rotflmao//

amen again, but don't take THAT word at face value ... i'm not religious //LOL//
 
#28 ·
Wait - I made a funny in my first response, but then went on in what I thought was the spirit of the post and using the dogs I know as examples, expanded on that thought. Is that not how this works here?

I don't want to read your answer in a PM. If you want to start threads on general subjects, why not give your opinion in the thread? I don't want to have to hunt you down for it. OShare it that we all may learn something. Even if I don't agree, I am interested in your point of view and maybe, by hashing it out with each other, someone, maybe even you or I, will learn something, or approach a training issue or problem dog in a different way. Or just shut up about it and let the thread die if it's not going the way you want it to and you don't care to share your pearls of wisdom with us.

Sarcasm, humour... kinda makes the board a fun place to drop into.
 
#29 ·
1. a dog that craves attention more times than not. Craves and demands close contact and/or attention

2. Neither good or bad. Unless it interferes with the job or task.

3. Genetic predisposition. Enhanced by association and/or training

And since you have said no one has described a social butterfly to your standard how about you post your definition. Because, clearly, we are not measuring up to your standard. Once you post that, then maybe we can hold up our end of the conversation because, clearly, you seem to have something particular in mind. Perhaps, if you post a video of your definition of a social butterfly we may finally see one. I'm still waiting for the tailgate to drop.....
 
#31 ·
I may have to look back over these posts but I don't recall anyone saying a "social butterfly" was genetic.

There are definitely genetics such as a spooky dog, genetically aggressive dogs, whatever that would probably preclude them from becoming a "social butterfly" but I think any well socialized, happy, friendly to the world dog could be looked at as a "social butterfly".

Developing that regardless of desire or it just happening has to require the right dog and the right owner.
 
#32 ·
I consider my gf's dog a social butterfly. He will break commands (incomplete training) to socialize running right over. He won't focus on her in play if people walk over. He's excited and happy meeting new people. He lives for it.
Its a hindrance. My dog is approachable, but doesn't go out of his way. Hes more worried about me, and what I'm doing.
This in my opinion is due to nurture and nature. My gf's dog, being an abandoned puppy learned humans provided bottle feedings, food, warmth, and social time. My gsd was in a litter and is very similar to his dam.
 
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