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Tracking Progression

11K views 72 replies 6 participants last post by  Nicole Stark 
#1 ·
In training Wednesday night I decided to push his abilities and tried something new. The scenario was situated in a large parking lot and the winds were 5-10 mph. I had the decoy walk the track across the parking lot, then make a left turn. On the left leg he walked about 40 yards then back tracked on the left leg and continued to the right of the root track...in essence the track ended up being a "T" pattern. Given the conditions I aged the track only 5 minutes or so.

I bring my boy up to the start of the track and once he has acquired it we move forward. We cross the parking lot and when we get to the top of the T, he goes left. Now, I'm expecting him to go to the end of the left leg and go WTF? before he figures it out. Well, he only goes maybe 20 feet before he realizes he's going in the wrong direction. He turns 180 deg and follows the track to ultimately find the decoy. Christmas! My friend (decoy) was flabbergasted, but not more than me even though I already have confidence in him.

Here's the amazing thing. Just when I begin to believe how good a dogs' nose is I witness something like this. The dog was able to differentiate Ascending odor from Decending odor on hard surface wherein the back track (track on top of track) was less than a minute old! Incredible! And, he figured it out FAST. So now I have to do a few more, then come up with some other ways to try and trick him. :)
 
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#41 ·
I love working in the rain, but we don't tend to get the monsoon that Sarah and Howard are talking about...

I think most don't realize the amount of training and time that goes into, and is necessary, to be good and consistent (let alone very good) trailers.. Most don't want to put the time into it, and few enjoy running behind a hard pulling dog.. Those that do, well, all I can say is, the rewards given in watching the progress, reading the dog as (s) he traces an image of what the subject did with its nose, feel the bond created through the line like an umbilical chord, and rejoice in a hard job done well as a team.. Hard to beat and given only to those who sweat, cry, get frustrated, rejoice, think outside the box, think inside the box, practice, practice, practice, try new things, practice, ponder over every detail of what has been and will be, practice, read (everything on scent, trailing/tracking, victim behavior etc), practice, get excited because the weather will cause a new scenario for your dog - even when it is miserable for you, practice, pray and pray, study, practice.... You get the picture, lol!

I have been told many times I do things differently (I have no where near the experience Sarah has, but see the trends in SAR handler's and locale LE expectations (not lumping everyone together as I know there are progressive in both areas) and it is said with a sneer or dismissive tone.. That's OK.. They (not all are bad) are still trying to get certified years later and my girl certified 7mos into training, my boy will be 9mos into training and they train on longer in age and distance, successfully..

So, kudos again to Howard.. Thanks to Sarah for sharing her knowledge and expertise so freely!!
 
#43 ·
So, I laid a track and let it age for 3 hours tonight. A pocket knife was the starting article. As the track aged we did tracking with the other dogs as well as high risk stops with vehicle extractions. All was going well until one of the guys laid a track for the guy who laid mine. Well, he cut across my aging track and needless to say I was unhappy. Mainly because my original tracklayer was going to cross the track he laid for me. Knowing my dog I knew he'd hit that cross track and try to follow it by no fault of his own. Well I tried to run it anyway. The first 100 yds my boy was dead on it after locating the article at the start. As soon as we hit the cross track he wanted to follow it. I called it after that. I was proud he did so well on the oldest track hes done to date. Big confidence builder. I was upset that we didn't get to finish it. Oh well.

I also ran another T pattern with a back track on hard surface. I took video of that track but won't post it as it was not flattering and I'm anal(I know, I know). Dog was too much in and out of the root track but this time he didn't go left at the turn. He took a quick sniff left and went right and found the decoy. Did he learn that quick? We'll see. Track went West. 5 mph wind out of the NE this time.
 
#44 ·
Howard, did your tracklayer run his track before you ran yours? If that happened then I can see your boy going to freshest scent. If your tracklayer was able to wait so you could run yours then the problem would be solved unless your boy jumped to the freshest track but not his subjects.. It is hard when your subjects (tracklayers) are dog handler's as well.. Cross contamination everywhere... Another reason why so many don't practice trailing... So many variables involved..

Nice to hear your boy fast forwarded the backtrack and decided on the correct course of action... Self discovery in dogs is soo important.. It is easy to want to 'show' the dog what we want, but allowing them to problem solve through the problem is more important, imho... They learn it and gain confidence and seem to be able to apply what they learned into new scenarios.. So cool..
 
#45 ·
Howard, did your tracklayer run his track before you ran yours? If that happened then I can see your boy going to freshest scent..

Yes. My track was about 2 1/2 hours old when my track layer ran his dog. I ran his track with him and when I saw it headed towards my aged track I knew I was screwed. I ran it anyway just to see how he'd do on old odor and how'd he'd handle the cross track with the same person who laid mine. It went as expected. I don't fault the dog..I fault the humans. :) We had plenty of room. Don't know why it happened. I shoulda let everyone know exactly where mine was. Next time.
 
#46 ·
"I also ran another T pattern with a back track on hard surface. I took video of that track but won't post it as it was not flattering and I'm anal(I know, I know). Dog was too much in and out of the root track but this time he didn't go left at the turn. He took a quick sniff left and went right and found the decoy. Did he learn that quick? We'll see. Track went West. 5 mph wind out of the NE this time."


Would the dog normally leave the track if he air scents the decoy?

Just curious because the wind was out of the NE.
 
#47 ·
Yes he will but I set this one up specifically so that the wind was at our back for the most part. He could not smell the hidden decoy. I may post the video for a few days just so yall can see. You can see him hit the T, look left, then go right.
 
#48 ·
Howard, I just want to make sure I follow you. Guy A lays your track. It ages. Guy B lays track for guy A who later runs it with a dog? Is this correct?

If so, your dog started on Guy As but when it intersected, which track did he follow? The one laid by guy A or guy B (which was worked by guy A)? I presume the second but I wasn't entirely sure.
 
#49 ·
Yea, it's a little confusing in text. Guy A lays my track. Guy A crosses the same track 2 1/2 hours later while running his own training track. Guy B lays the track for guy A. Guy B is a tard. :)

Dog followed Guy A's fresher track when he hits the cross. Up until that point the dog was dead on the aged track.
 
#51 ·
Yea, it's a little confusing in text. Guy A lays my track. Guy A crosses the same track 2 1/2 hours later while running his own training track. Guy B lays the track for guy A. Guy B is a tard. :)
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Thanks Howard, I followed all that but clarify what happened when the dog gets to the point of the second track intersecting with the first. I presume he didn't follow the original track but followed the track of the fresher scent of the guy who was using the path of another laid for him.

What if something like this happened in the real world. What I mean is imagine the original track went much father, to eventually group up with someone else and a dog which crosses over the first part of the track you are on. If the dog followed where it intersected to the newer track was this wrong?
 
#50 ·
I guess I've been doing this to long. \\:D/ as I didn't have any problem with figuring out Howard's sequence of events. I can see it all happening in my mind's eye....

Howard, have you done any trailing type work using scent articles? I know you guys like to keep that felony tracking skill (last person to cross an area - not using a scent article) but wondering if you can teach a mix? I showed this to an officer in my area and it helped.

There's two ways to try it. Start the dog like a normal track (no scent article) until you come across an item you KNOW belongs to your subject (aka the knife, clothing) , Take a moment and actually scent your dog to the knife or whatever the object is. Then continue the track.

The other way is to scent the dog to the item at the start and then track. In either situation start with a clothing item first then move to other articles.

There may be a couple of hiccups while your dog is learning associations but after the reading the backtrack situation I know he would pick it up fast. Overall, I think it would help your skill set. The officer who was trying this didn't scent the dog every run as he wanted to keep the basic tracking skill up but introduction of the formal scenting to the article did up his game. I remember him calling me a couple of months after we started doing it very happy that what we had practiced lead to him do a complicated track catching a bad guy.
 
#53 · (Edited)
Video of the T track with the back track.

Not my boys' best effort. He is usually deep nosed on hard surface. For some reason he ping pongs across the track today. Wind is basically at our back but still blows odor to the left. Tracking area has slight contamination along with the scent from the other handlers behind us but he discriminate scents them as we approach the track. Track is along the visible center line of the road. The T is where the curb goes left. You can see the subtle track check before my boy goes right to follow the track to the decoy.
 
#54 ·
I didn't know if you were doing scent articles or not.

The only thing about the ping-ponging was that it looked like he was using the gutters and grass to work the track from scent edge to scent edge. I don't know if it was due to the wind or not. The major difference was when he hit the backtrack 'T'. Noticeable change in behavior. Really smoothed out for a bit. Was your guy on the backside of the bushes and then moved away as the dog was coming around? Playing ring-around-the-rosie?
 
#55 ·
He was told to go behind the bushes. Not sure what he actually did. You can see the dog about 15 ft off the hot track due to the wind then adjust around the bushes. Not his bet effort at all!](*,) Personally, I think on training days he gets wound up watching the other dogs and he gets ahead of himself sometimes. I've seen him do more precise tracks on asphalt than on grass. That's why I'm not happy with the video. Didn't have time to run another one.
 
#56 ·
I liked the video.. I agree there was a distinct change in behavior and smoothing out at the T, however, I think it is human logic to believe hat scent must fall and stay where it is laid (not that I'm saying that is what you believe).. Too often I've seen people check their dogs because they weren't on top of the track the person laud but we're well within expectation of scent.. Think of perfume or Cologne, it doesn't stay just on the person wearing it, often you can smell it well before you send the person, and even can have a perfume/Cologne trail to follow where the person has been.. The dog 'hits' the strongest source of odor, asphalt, concrete, dips in terrain, obstacles, etc all change the dynamics of how the odor drifts or would 'naturally' come to lay.. Add wind (I am trying to find the articles for you Sarah but you can also go to www.asctk9.org and read a bunch of articles.. Tests have been conducted by Cornwell University amongst others) and cars going by and scent can drift further...

I guess my point is (and I know you guys know this but I'm surprised at how many people I've met that don't, lol) that scent/odor is not linear, or at least I rarely is.. Sure, there are times that looking at gps overlap of track laid/run shows almost on top of each other, but so often I find that there are obvious drifts, usually corresponding to terrain or other features. Throw urban in, and I've found my dogs solidly in odor a block over from actual track but mirroring the turns subject made until the dog 'catches up' to the strongest track which is usually close proximity of the subject.. This doesn't happen all the time, but enough that I've learned to trust my dog.. They have the stronger source of scent capabilities, lol..

I liked watching the eagerness of your boy.. He came out testing the air and doing eliminations of those nearby and air currents.. You could tell he had already zeroed in on the track before you put the clip in the harness, and while he did ping pong (I agree with Sarah that he probably was hitting the pools off the grass, or the gutters) a bit, he seemed to be checking the boundaries of his source of odor..

Sorry if I rambled.. Did this off my phone and I can't see what I wrote (or typos) to double check..
 
#57 ·
Thanks Misty. I will say that due to my anal nature I like to see my dogs as close to the actual track as possible. And while it is hard surface with an almost cross breeze, I've seen him stay closer on hard surface than this particular video shows. My boy does know the game and a lesser trained eye would have missed the bystander check and track acknowledgement as we approached the track starting area. His eagerness brings a high nose which I don't like, but that's just me. Also...in real deployments when time is of the essence and emotions are a bit higher, it is easy for the dog to lose the track or miss a turn if he parallels a track to far away. Not to mention, we'd have to negotiate many more obstacles for no reason which is dangerous and exhausting.

With all that said, he did what I wanted him to do and the track was successful. He was just sloppy IMO.:( I told yall he would screw me.
 
#58 ·
You are funny! Actually remind me of how I must be while I dissect every turn and nuances my dogs make, lol.. I agree with wanting the dog as close to the laid track as possible, even if just for our peace of mind (and yes, fringe scenting can get one into trouble fast.. Been there done that, lol). You know your dog and know his tendencies... While maybe not a glowing example of his abilities, I believe it showed he definitely knows the game and his job.

It always surprises me how a dog can excel on a track that should never even be possible, in our mind.. And on a track that seems so simple, be stumped...goes to show that we as humans don't understand alot of what scent odors do and how they move or are interpreted by the dog... I love watching videos and flanking behind other dog handler's because watching how each dog works a scent is true poetry, at least in my opinion and weird mind.. Truly awesome..
 
#60 ·
Hi Nicole, Howard can answer this as well as it is posed to him, but if the track was laid by the same person, the person being tracked, and they crossover their own track then the dog is not wrong... However, if say the person being tracked has a long trail and someone corpses over theor track and the dog 'jumps' track to the fresher track which is not the person they were scented on then they are wrong.. Does that answer the question? I'm curious if I'm reading your question correctly or not..
 
#62 ·
OK. Thanks for explaining it. I had that worked out in my head when I read it the first time but thought there had to be another explanation for why you were irritated that he did what he was supposed to do. Is this because you set out with working an aged track but didn't get to?

I get the notion of cross tracks from other decoys and totally would expect your PSD to ignore those tracks but if he reverted to the fresher scent where the handler (your track layer) walked over it and the dog followed that track I'd think this is not a failure in the least.

What am I missing? The only thing I keep coming back to is that maybe your track layer hadn't run his track yet, but by what your saying that didn't happen. Your track layer worked his dog and your dog caught a fresher scent of his track which crossed the original one he laid for you. As such that would presumably bring the "perp" closer to you in time (fresher track). I'd think you'd want exactly what you got, just not what you set out to achieve.

I feel like a dolt. Maybe I'm looking at this from the dogs perspective and final outcome and not yours and that's why I don't see the obvious?
 
#63 ·
He wasn't upset at the dog but the tracklayer for laying a trail over his aging track for the dog handler that was also his subject/tracklayer. The dog did the correct thing, but he had wanted to work an aged track but because his tracklayer had to cross over the track he had laid for Howard's dog when he ran his dog, Howard's dog then had a fresh track over an aged by his subject, so it ended up being a hot track instead of aged... Did that make sense? Or did I confuse more? Lol
 
#65 ·
Both of you are right. The 3 hr track would have been the oldest track to date that I would have put him on. I was pissed because I didn't get to run the whole thing. It was going to be a great learning experience for me and the dog. I'll do it again next week. Next time I'll be more dilligent in letting everyone know what place is off limits.
 
#68 ·
LOL, I think weird thoughts. I blame it on being left handed.

Seriously though, I see and relate to the world differently than other people do. For the life of me I couldn't figure out why Howard would be bothered by that. Then it just came to me and I was like OH! Well, my... and now I understand.

Howard, delete my ah ha moment and carry on will ya? I definitely didn't want to kill your thread like that.
 
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